kray 3.0 preview

[jure]

If i buy now, will I entitled for the v3.0 upgrade for free?

No there is no such deal in place. However upgrades will be available at discounted price.

[antoniomitalia]

I've got the same question, assuming it is definitely cheaper to wait for kray 3,... do you have any idea on an aproximate launching date?

[Janusz Biela]

I've got the same question, assuming it is definitely cheaper to wait for kray 3,... do you have any idea on an aproximate launching date?

Soon Kray as standalone will be close so first beta perhaps will appear around in next 2-4 months. Soon more details.

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

Thank u veryyyyyyyyyyyy Much janusz

[jnom]

I've got the same question, assuming it is definitely cheaper to wait for kray 3,... do you have any idea on an aproximate launching date?

Soon Kray as standalone will be close so first beta perhaps will appear around in next 2-4 months. Soon more details.

Hope you guys don't forget the animation side and flicker free renders. Marketting is equally important.
If there's a beta would love to test some scenes. Guaranteed kray 3.0 user anyway

[Janusz Biela]

Hope you guys don't forget the animation side and flicker free renders. Marketting is equally important.
If there's a beta would love to test some scenes. Guaranteed kray 3.0 user anyway

Flicker in render comes not from engine but form knowledge of users
Kray as render engine for animation is clean as blank paper...but You must know how to do.
In K3.0 will be one button setup (You press and You do not need make all procedures. This will become to single computer, for Network renders are another plans , but this is more far future)

[jnom]

That depends on the engine and users. Not even the best user can output animated renders if the renderer is not up to it.
I'm speaking of animation in general not the archiviz type. Deformation, motion graphics, etc.
Arnold, vray, fprime have good bruteforce renderer
http://vimeo.com/56546771

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

That depends on the engine and users. Not even the best user can output animated renders if the renderer is not up to it.
I'm speaking of animation in general not the archiviz type. Deformation, motion graphics, etc.
Arnold, vray, fprime have good bruteforce renderer
http://vimeo.com/56546771

this is with lightwave 3D :v

[Janusz Biela]

That depends on the engine and users. Not even the best user can output animated renders if the renderer is not up to it.
I'm speaking of animation in general not the archiviz type. Deformation, motion graphics, etc.
Arnold, vray, fprime have good bruteforce renderer
http://vimeo.com/56546771

Arnold, Octane are Unbiased render engines, so there is only Path Tracing (Metropolis Render Engine) or Ambient occlusion .
Fprime doesn`t have brute force, there is Monte Carlo Render Engine (So same as in Kray UNCACHE)
In Kray also You have Path Tracing exactly the same as Octane or Arnold
but situation is that, those softwares use GPU cards which in some cases have much more power then CPU (I am not sure, about 20-40 time faster)...and also a lot of limits.
Here comparing of system engine renders:

[jnom]

Monte carlo is brute force afaik. If you set lw native to monte carlo and turn off interpolated its bruteforce but very poor performance. In kray I've tried to use uncache mode for animation but its also poor performance. Fprime was better in that regard. No flicker, consistent render with fprime. You can test bruteforce with an animated cornell box and see how lw native, fprime, kray compare. A challenge for the render engine

[Janusz Biela]

Monte carlo is brute force afaik. If you set lw native to monte carlo and turn off interpolated its bruteforce but very poor performance. In kray I've tried to use uncache mode for animation but its also poor performance. Fprime was better in that regard. No flicker, consistent render with fprime. You can test bruteforce with an animated cornell box and see how lw native, fprime, kray compare. A challenge for the render engine

I am not sure Monte Carlo is brute force (is no different between Final Gathering and Monte Carlo ...except INTERPOLATION. Uncache is method when samples are no interpolated which affect noise) But remember In Kray when You start UNCACHE You must shoot photons! (is different perhaps then in FPrime) and if You will have BAD PHOTON MAP then You will receive flickering, splotches etc , even when You will have UNCACHE Why using UNCACHE in Kray You receive problems in animation, because You need good PHOTON MAP also. Only Brute Force from Path Tracing make ideal GI.
Make experiment:
render scene with UNCACHE then You will see shooting photons phase (amount of cells) and after that switch to PATH TRACING (also uncache) is no Photon shooting phase ! render start immediately ...and this mean brute force.
Why for massive scenes better use Path Tracing (You avoid problem with huge data of photon map which affect errors). If I will render 1.000.000 instance houses in photon map phase I will receive huge data of photon maps (millions of cells) which affect a lot of problems (what happen if I want make fly camera with close up of one house?...I will receive problems with good GI because for that I need decrease GI resolution ...which affect more bigger amount of cells...and spiral of nonsense will start.
I very doubt FPrime is faster then Kray in UNCACHE mode

Summary: If You want uncache render in animation from Kray then You need also good photon map which is not easy (why K3.0 must appear)
Fprime render , same time as Kray. You can compare quality (do not compare light, there in FPrime are not tonemaping and Skyportals)

[jnom]

I'm pretty sure montecarlo with no interp is bruteforce. Means no cheats. But also means slow depending on render engine. Unbias engines are also bruteforce since they don't cheat. They're cheating now afaik to keep up with biased engines. Metropolis Light Transport, etc seem to be cheating to make them fast but still not fast enough unless you have atleast 2 super fast gpu.

Anyway here's a test for kray. Render this scene without flicker. In lw this takes ages with bruteforce mc. In fprime its quite fast. In kray uncache its also slow and I never got good results. Maybe you can test and upload revised scene so we can learn how to setup for animated gi.

[Janusz Biela]

This is the most easy case to render in animation But to render it You are limited to only ONE COMPUTER...because for this case is ONLY ONE CHOICE: Time Interpolation module from Kray which doesn`t work in network (is impossible to that because this is blending between spectrum of frames which is not shared by network) This setup is apparently without setup. I will render with more complicate case: I will put Luminosity panel inside (is more difficult because I will cancel raytracing from Area light and use interpolated light from lumi panel which make more problems: splotches , light leaks etc)
btw GPU renderings: I warn people not be happy with that as revolution phase of rendering. This is just another way of rendering (NOT FASTER!) with a lot of limits and problems. Imho in next years we will have two parallel ways of rendering technology: GPU and CPU, both with positives and negatives thinks...

[Janusz Biela]

Here Yours scene animation frames (15 sec/frame time render, only MB added from AE+desaturated shader from Kray to reduce strong colors from RED and BLUE walls+Skyportal. I think Skyportal is not necessary in this scene...is just too basic):

[Janusz Biela]

Setup is very basic and actually is nothing to do in Kray (I render with two passes which is necessary). Btw QMC I do not like it I do not use and I will never use it...is too slow, too noise, ruin surfaces setup, make longer AA phase. I am fan of pure Final Gathering which is difficult but only Kray offer clean GI (V-ray is far away from this quality) and only problem with Kray is with small objects in scene (we need GI per pixel for that or Z axis fallow GI) Why V-ray in this case win. Somebody also complain AA in Kray but true is in middle, because Kray has some problems with GI generally, why AA, blur, transparency phases render slow also (huge part of power CPU is wasted for Final Gather)...why Kray need new engine which automatically make faster render those phases