LATEST KRAY TEASER !!!!

[jdomingo]

here is the latest kray test render. raw and no post process. WIP

[jure]

Looking good! Did you use occlusion for corners?

[jdomingo]

thanks Jure, yup i did use dp's occlusion node. just trying how fast is it with kray. for this resolution it took 9 minute. uncached, photonmapping and all settings on LOW. my spec is 6 core win7 64bit.

[jnom]

I think theres too much ao making it look very cg.
Question. What mode in kray is the same as vray irr first bounce, bruteforce 2nd bounce?
I think the reason I had slow experience with uncache gi is because photon mapping is still active. Is it a good way to use uncache and finalgather only in kray?

[Janusz Biela]

I think theres too much ao making it look very cg.
Question. What mode in kray is the same as vray irr first bounce, bruteforce 2nd bounce?
I think the reason I had slow experience with uncache gi is because photon mapping is still active. Is it a good way to use uncache and finalgather only in kray?

Remember: V-ray engine render is very old, full of fake tricks...In kray You have REAL bounce lights . Is no differences between QMC, bruteforce Kray/V-ray...this is just same no interpolation mode (of course different engines renders) matter is in photon Mapping becouse Kray is much more "modern" then V-ray. Why people use uncache in V-ray? is only two answers...they do not know enough V-ray and second they want ideal GI (but this cost of time render...). I prefer finalgather: fast, clean and quite good GI without splotches (but still need update and some parts in Krays engine are bad when we compare to V-ray...but sometimes I have doubts is realy something better in V-ray then Kray? )

[jure]

I think theres too much ao making it look very cg.
Question. What mode in kray is the same as vray irr first bounce, bruteforce 2nd bounce?
I think the reason I had slow experience with uncache gi is because photon mapping is still active. Is it a good way to use uncache and finalgather only in kray?

That makes no sense. You probably mean bruteforce 1st bounce and Irr. map second bounce. It makes no sense to use slower method (brute force) for secondary bounces.

So brute force 1st /Irr. map second would be the same as uncached in Kray.

[jnom]

I think theres too much ao making it look very cg.
Question. What mode in kray is the same as vray irr first bounce, bruteforce 2nd bounce?
I think the reason I had slow experience with uncache gi is because photon mapping is still active. Is it a good way to use uncache and finalgather only in kray?

That makes no sense. You probably mean bruteforce 1st bounce and Irr. map second bounce. It makes no sense to use slower method (brute force) for secondary bounces.

So brute force 1st /Irr. map second would be the same as uncached in Kray.

I think its not strange but different purpose. For character animation this has been working very well for us. No gi error like lw renderer or kray renderer. Its like fprime montecarlo but of course vray is fast with qmc(bruteforce).
Seems to be the general workflow even in other platform.
Irr animation prepass 1st bounce, qmc bruteforce 2nd bounce.
http://www.forum.vrayforc4d.com/showthread.php?t=129
http://forums.cgarchitect.com/37432-vra ... u-use.html
For stills and walkthrough yes finalgather lightcache method is fast but limited to archi.
My aim for kray is not only for stills or walkthrough but to use it like vray for character animations.
Since I don't see 1st bounce and 2nd bounce in kray options, how to do it? Turn on uncache and put photonmapping into? and final gather into?
What is the equivalent to irridiance map in kray? Is the photon map in vray the same as photonmapping in kray? We never use photonmap in vray for anything but stills. Should I turn it off in kray in character animations?

[jure]

The translation of terminology between vray and kray goes roughly like this:
vray - kray
photon map = Photons/Photonmap
lightcache = Photons/Lightmap
Irradiance map = FG
QMC = FG (uncached)

There is no direct way to mix first and second bounce methods in Kray Photon mapping mode since Kray always uses photons for secondary bounces estimate. There are plenty of other options that you can control via script though: see GI modes. However those modes have not been heavily tested.

As for animation with moving objects/lights - kray provides Time interpolated mode in which you can turn caching of photons and FG on or off and also adjust blending of GI between frames... More on that in the manual.

[jdomingo]

i'm not much of a vray user, but i did use vray long time ago and compare to kray in terms of ease of use i have stick with kray. kray can outperform vray and vice versa when used correctly by those great 3D artist. again this will be a long discussion of which one is the best. the client will not ask you if you use brute force on the second bounce or whatever but at the end its the final render that matter. im just happier using kray and the more i learn it the more i get satisfied with it.

here is another WIP using uncached.
setting preset = high (just used uncached and change fg min to 4000)
camera is real lens with 2 fall off (for that vinette effect)
NO POST PROCESS.

8 MIN RENDER TIME
24 gb memory, 6 corre win 7 64bit.

[jdomingo]

please note this is low res and the white dots you all see on the brnze wall is series of led light, it will be illuminated with my night shot.....

[jnom]

The translation of terminology between vray and kray goes roughly like this:
vray - kray
photon map = Photons/Photonmap
lightcache = Photons/Lightmap
Irradiance map = FG
QMC = FG (uncached)

There is no direct way to mix first and second bounce methods in Kray Photon mapping mode since Kray always uses photons for secondary bounces estimate. There are plenty of other options that you can control via script though: see GI modes. However those modes have not been heavily tested.

As for animation with moving objects/lights - kray provides Time interpolated mode in which you can turn caching of photons and FG on or off and also adjust blending of GI between frames... More on that in the manual.

Thanks for the info. So the two engines aren't similar as I thought they were.
I've tested interpolated mode heavily for animation. It produce flicker on shadows and inconsistent lighting. It is good for archiviz work were flickers and gi errors are acceptable. But for tv and film work its not passable.

[jure]

Yes TI has some problems, I am aware of that. It will be improved in v3...

jdomingo: thats a great render time and quality! What kind of computer beast do u have?

[jdomingo]

@Jure, the pc in the office im using is hp z400 i think. mid range only. it has single 6 core, 24 gb memory, quadro 4000, win7 64bit. that is why i am forever uncache user now.
at home im using dell t7400 quad core, 4 gb memory, quadro 1700 winxp 64. yup i tested this scene at home and no way it finish rendering in 8 min.
so, when can we see a real v3 teaser?