increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

General disscusion about Kray
formtek
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:24 am

increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by formtek »

Hello,

How to increase the rendertime for a panorama interior.
It is a bar/restaurant with a lot of lights and glass objects and LED strips.
Maybe to many objects with Luminosity!!!!
How can i create some glow without Luminosity?

I work with this resoultion : 4096x2048 pxls
At the moment the scene is rendering over 5 days!!!!!!
I want to bring it back to 1 day!!

See attachments for Kray input i use.
Attachments
image-5.jpg
image-4.jpg
image-3.jpg
image-2.jpg
image-1.jpg
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Janusz Biela
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Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by Janusz Biela »

Setting is not so bad. You can change:
1. Anti - aliasing grid 3
2. Final Gathering: min/max rays 400/1000
3. Phat Passes 1


But I think you have problem with surfaces (bad setup, deep reflection recurse)
Also maybe you have very slow CPU?

But I suspect huge amount of recurse (a lot glass/reflection surfaces) - only one solution: limiter in Nodes:
glass_limiter.srf
(45.66 KiB) Downloaded 355 times
Inside limits for recursion: 3. But you must be careful with situation when glass is behind glass then limit 3 can be too small and you will get black transparency surface. Then increase this limits up to 5 or higher. This is common trick everywhere for reflections.

Remember always add to Kray command:
recurse 15

This override setting from LW (15 bounce/recurse lights) but still from Node limiter you will have 3 bounce:
ScreenShot185.png

Amount of Interpolated Light sources (LEM) has almost no influence for speed render. You can have 1000 luminescence lamps. The difference is for Physical Lights: Area Light, Spherical Light, IES. This can kill your time render with over 10-20 lights because shadows from them are calculated with no interpolations.
thomas
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:59 am

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thomas »

Also, watch out when using certain nodes: DP Kit's reflection shading fires 27 samples for reflection, for instance, when often 5 or 10 samples are enough. If you can post a pic of your render and a description of your system (processor, ram, speed, OS) then we can probably tell you if the speed is normal or not.
thibault
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thibault »

Hi,
I'm afraid when i read 5 days for rendering a scene. Pehaps your PC/MAC configuration have a low power, i hope.
No doubt Kray is the best render engine for interior, personnaly, i never take the time to understand this engine and all my trying resume to too long or too poor quality result.
Here my last render : LW native, 4h05mn for 3840 px.
Yes, i'm OK, isn't the quality of Janusz and the client want an appart "charged".
But, if i can made the same or better quality with Kray and in less time, i'm very happy to learn !
For me, the major problem with Kray is it's very difficult to have a respectable rendering with not many and many trying.
Why coming in Kray if i can't have the same result with that LW native render ? and surely, do not spend hours in settings.
I forgot ! Thanks to janusz for all his comments, advice and time for we !
My configuration : I7 5960X - 32 GO RAM
PS : Just a thought before version 3. Janusz has enough experience with this engine now asking to make a simple change in the current version . Stir the preset settings : Low - interior , Med - Interior , and HQ- interior - ditto for exterior .
But with a good set ! Everyone would have access to a good set and we could devote ourselves to creativity using Kray . I think the time of "gas plants" is over. :roll:
Attachments
VUE_VALIDATION_T4_BRUT.jpg
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Janusz Biela
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Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by Janusz Biela »

thanks for LW render.
All render engines needs knowledge how to use.
Kray is very advanced render engine and this is normal when users sometimes get lost.
Like you see on your image LW native sucks with Anti aliasing and noise blur. There is no way LW native is faster then Kray because this is technically impossible. Global Illumination in LW Native is the worst from all software available now - very artificial - you can stand on the head but still is missing GI realism . But for me the biggest problem in LW native is Limit DR - you can see it where is the lamp on the left and curtain with sky in background. Is just impossible make good Anti Aliasing in contrast regions for this Engine. Generally Anti Aliasing is very bad - there is no even Full Screen AA!
At least lately LW Engine make big progress in speed render (normal complex scenes - not studio with one box) and even I am surprised by this. But again history will make big loop and arriving K3 again will be the fastest in all 3D aspects.

Anyway, congratulation for really good interior from LW! It`s need really sort of skill to achieve it.
thibault
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thibault »

Thanks Janusz, you're right ! Waiting for K3 !
PS : Many tips in this scene for going faster.
Dpont Ambcc witn linear or cosine on wall remove splotchs caused by GI.
Then, Indirect bounces : 2, Rays : 600 and Second : 45 and no splotchs, my worst enemy !
thomas
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Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thomas »

Hi Thibault,

I'll share the three big jumps in quality I made, using Kray:

1) Turning off "cache irradiance" - for still images.
2) Setting the GI resolution to 300mm (not auto), path passes to 1 and 200% on the bottom of the "Final Gather" tab.
3) Using nodes.

This is my current Kray workflow, and it works great for a lot of setups:

1) Open Kray.
2) Set mode to "Photon Mapping" on the general tab.
3) Set preset to "Low".
4) Turn off "Cache Irradiance" on the general tab.
5) Go to "Final Gather" tab.
6) Set GI resolution to 300mm.
7) Set path tracing to 1 and 200%

I'm betting just doing this will already give you a beautiful render. After that, depending on the render time and noise level you want, you can render at double resolution and fire more rays (Min rays and Max rays on the final gathering tab).

I'd love to see your LW render using this!!! By the way, I'm impressed by the level of work you achieve using LW.

FYI, the path tracing at 200% means 200% of the G.I. resolution, of 300mm here. That means Kray will use the better path tracing method when it's working closer than 600mm of a corner (200% of 300mm = 600mm).
thibault
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thibault »

Thanks Thomas !
I'm going to try your Kray workflow in a near 360 project.
Pehaps you help me if i need to understand ?
Thanks in advance
Franck
thibault
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thibault »

I'm working on a second version of appart. for client
Here my speed tests :
Firts with setting post by Thomas
Second with native LW
Third with setting by formtek with Janusz corrections. Splotchs
Thanks
Attachments
Kray 1 - Nothing good - 16 mn
Kray 1 - Nothing good - 16 mn
Native LW - 36 mn
Native LW - 36 mn
Kray 2 - Splotchs - 23 mn
Kray 2 - Splotchs - 23 mn
Last edited by thibault on Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by Janusz Biela »

Lately native LW has very good GI quality (very good contact shadow).
Be careful with fill light source for interior (forget HDRi or LDR image- this is not light which gives clean photons). For that I use simple solution in Texture Environment:
sky.png
.

Physky in Kray is not so good, the newest simulation Physky2 (Hosek) is available only in K3.
This image is not good as physky with good power gradient but at least has clean gradient.
Of course in window you must add extra light: LEM or Area Light.
Here system light:
Sun_background.lws
(10.89 KiB) Downloaded 362 times
thomas
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:59 am

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thomas »

Hi Thibault,

Can you also give us the rendertimes for the above renders in the three workflows? When you turn off "cache irradiance" you need to use a higher number of samples than the default to reduce noise of course. Typically this takes longer than caching, but the shadows are a lot better.
thibault
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thibault »

Thanks Janusz !
Thomas, i had the render time in vue comments.
Good night
franck
thomas
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:59 am

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thomas »

Sorry, I didn't see that!

Well, that doesn't look too bad! If you play around a bit with the settings in "my" workflow you can make a render at double the resolution without too much noise (the trick here is that if you render at double resolution with the same absolute level of noise, you get half the relative level of noise).

Of course there are things you will need to adjust lighting-wise because of tonemapping, linear workspaces and specific surface settings (e.g. photon multipliers), but your light bounces and shadows should look great then.

Then again, I do really think that your LW render looks nice (though a bit oversaturated for my taste), so I can understand that you don't want to go through the trouble of conversion to Kray.
thibault
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thibault »

Thanks Thomas ! I 'll try . If I can save time on the render ...
thomas
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Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:59 am

Re: increase rendertime for interior 360 panorama

Post by thomas »

If you don't mind sharing your assets, you can always share a WeTransfer link and let others play around with your scene to see how to best set up things.
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