small trunk

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

kray render +hdri . hope u like it .

the problem is in the window of the trunk toy or baby trunk.

kray really need to update theirs surfaces id thank you.

[thomas]

Cool truck! What exactly is the problem with the window?? I agree that Kray could use some extra shaders, but that is for anisotropic reflections, velvet, subsurface scattering materials and glass volumes in my opinion. Flat glass is more than okay in LW, so I'm not sure why you are having a problem here.

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

If u can see some pixel on window edge cause i use kray buffer surface Id on photoshop so the selection of surfaces buffer ID from kray didnt match well as the raw render this problem should be fixed also when using glass node dielectric we should get alpha channel of it. I dont know why we need kray 3. Indtead to get a nice update in k2.6 physky2 . And new shaders glass ex... albedo . Compare kray to other engine. Like : corona. Octane arnold . Render man. Vray . M.ray also Iray . Maxwell ex... we have advantage only speed. Speed without surfaces it mean useless. I would like slow with all surfaces nd shaders. And with easy setup not like thos all useless node in lw. If you use something u get crash all time useless newtek . But i think this time with lw2016 they will make a good step forward. I hope this k3 shine like corona or octane. Need simple gui shader and pretty much the most modern algorythm on shaders to get more realisme . We need ggx . We have good shader brdf in lw but it not supported by kray. We cant hide lumi from leflection and let direct light of this lumi casted. We need many things ink3. And what i found. I found kray nd lw give you the best tesult with hdri better then vray or 3dsmax ex... just u need how to use it. U can get perfect result no strong photon nothing just need to know its izi. With physky 2 we will perfect render on exterior. I hope.

[thomas]

Hi Lightwave3d! Wow, what a long answer

Compositing and surface IDs are a science in itself, and have little to do with the quality of shaders in Kray or LW, to be honest. I don't really see the need for this in a simple render like this, but of course everybody has their own workflow. Object ID do require a specific anti-aliasing setup, and higher res output than this, because of matting and masking. This is the same in all software.

You're saying you don't know why we need Kray 3, but then request a huge update in Kray 2, which boils down to the same thing, but that's okay: the bottom line is we all would like to see Kray evolve, and there will be a lot coming in 2016.

As far as speed goes, this is a VERY big advantage, and certainly not useless in it's current form, I must say. Nodes for me are also a VERY big advantage. I think LW nodes are already amazing in their current form. Very flexible, very powerful and easy to use. If you get a lot of crashes with nodes please let us know how and when, because for me they work very well.

I do agree that we need state-of-the-art shaders, and that they need to be fast to set up.

By the way: maybe I understand it wrongly, but you can hide lumi from reflection and have the direct light be casted in Kray using the "unseen by rays casts light" option!

[thomas]

Oh, and one more thing: I don't think the Corona renders look better than the Kray renders. Of course the Bertrand Benoit images are insane, but if you let BB use Kray they would look equally insane. The renders that are done by other people look great, but so do Janusz's renders, and those of other people!

[Janusz Biela]

...Of course the Bertrand Benoit images are insane...

Amount of work is equal to effect. To make good render always takes a lot time to make it!
Only pre-processing in Nodes takes a lot time: mixing a couple textures to get effect plus a lot test renders.
...but please notice, this is nothing extraordinary, he just knows very well software and all 3D technical aspects. Also he choose very careful references - just not to make crap.
Of course render engine and shaders has major influence...You can not make it in Lightwave but partly you can make it in Kray (sorry but is impossible to over jump some limits in software especially missing shaders).
If you will have opportunity to see override mode from his renders you will notice: same effect in LW, Kray, Moodo, etc.


This effect took 6 textures in Nodes:

and perhaps he use same system (of course in his invented way in other software) but idea is the same:

I show this because pre processing is very important. You can not put just one texture and expects good result: IMPOSSIBLE

btw
I noticed lately that shaders (for physical simulations aspects: velvet, glass, displacement, etc) are important but pre processing is more

btw
I setup this metal surface almost from finger - after that took only 2 fast preview renders to make it. I can not wait for Kray3 VPR when this process will be in real time....

[thomas]

Hi Janusz,

1) What do you mean with pre-processing? I mean, what type of things do you do in pre-processing phase and what issues does this solve or affect? Is it mostly gamma precalculations?

2) Any chance we can get to see your node scheme?

3) Any chance that you would build a library for, for instance, the following common materials in archviz:

- matte plastic
- satin plastic
- glossy plastic
- matte stone / marble
- glossy stone / marble
- matte wood
- semi-gloss wood
- high gloss laquered wood
- stainless steel
- gold
- silver
- velvet
- cotton fabric
etc... ?

[thomas]

I forgot to mention the obvious: nice render Janusz!

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

By the way: maybe I understand it wrongly, but you can hide lumi from reflection and have the direct light be casted in Kray using the "unseen by rays casts light" option!

hehe this is useless option its cant give u the result what im told you about. i try it and know what kind of result you get. wait until i put render interior tricks u will see it cause i see area light in lw and kray read it as normal but if u add poly light u will get realistic light. from this one . u need to hide this lumi reflection from other surfaces i mean custom but you cant do it . cause if u check unseen by rays u will not get the reflection from lumi . i think the best thing it like option wich surfaces can read that lumi reflection or hide it from ex...... for exmple if u have chrom . chrom need to see this lumi light . and glass in window not. later im going to explain more further .

the surfaces id i need it to get realistic color or nature color cause my render get more saturate raw.

thank u!

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

this is simple exmple mixing light inkray . this atmosphere didnt need lumi light.

[thomas]

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the problems you are running into. Your little toy truck is something that can be fixed in two minutes within LightWave by just changing the color values, or in photoshop with very little effort, adjusting vibrance or saturation. I know that for some jobs you might really really want to use object IDs, but this does not feel like not one of them. This is even a great example for using the colorCorrection node!

Also, for good arch-viz I think the procedure is really simple: model all the "real" light sources, so they can be reflected in EVERY surface (so that means glass as well as chrome), potentially attenuate or strenghten these using photon multiplier, and add area lights or luminous polygons to fill in areas that might be too dark. For the few situations where you want to have a lumi not reflect in something some simple photoshop composition work can be a lot simpler than setting up everything in passes and with visibility flags.

Like I said before, I'm not trying to be critical, but it feels like the problems you have can be solved easily, but you just want them to be solved in a very specific way. I might be wrong and seeing things too simplistically because I don't run into those issues.

In the last image, what is not working the way you would want it too work?

[thomas]

Hi LightWave3d!

I really want to repeat, so I'm not misunderstood: I would like to help, but I get the feeling I'm misunderstanding your problems, so I'm probably suggesting the wrong "solutions".

[Keraressi Abdelkarim]

pls how to use this in node . i guess ur soo good in node :3 .

[thomas]

Well, nobody is saying that Photoshop doesn't have its use in 3D work, but honestly, half of these can be recreated without a lot of trouble. Color Node, ColorTool, Invert node etc... Give Janusz 10 minutes and he probably recreates all of these in 10 minutes, with more flexibility than you have in Photoshop.

Still, I have to repeat myself: I don't really see the limitations that you see in LW + Kray, apparently.

[Janusz Biela]

Here small information about pre-processing:

Curve Node (my favorite) huge potential!
Example blending with multiply and Incidental Angle:

You can use it as:
- blender of two materials in mixer (curve allow you blend two input materials in very flexible ways)
- Incidental Angle
- you can Inject material into Curve and blend it (all Photoshop blends)


Mixer and Simple Colour Correction:

Mixer allow you to mix material source or colors in many ways. Curve Node connected to Opacity make nice combination (I use this the most)

Simple Colour Correction allow you prepare from one texture: reflection map, blur map, diffuse map, etc.
Also you can correct textures before color input because most of them are too bright or too dark or to much saturated or you can change texture by Hue color of texture (for example you need wood more reddish or more yellow)

All these above save a lot time, make renders easier, more realistic. By a few clicks you can make professional surface which are much better then standards.