Annoying noise

[khan973]

Hi,
I sometimes skip using Kray for animated scenes because no matter which settings I use, I still have lot of noise for certain things.
It's mostly noise from bump, small patterns and a lot from metan.

The AA I use is Box / Grid 4 / Filter 0.7 / FSAA / Rotated grid
For reflection I use Blurring threshold 0.0001 / Min 500 / Max 1000

I think those settings are decent but I always get noise on reflections and small details. Why is that?

[Janusz Biela]

You have two different cases here:
1. AA problem with small patterns and bump. To solve this problem you must do:
- Disable bump map (yes, in animation you do not need this effect especially when is very small or far from camera...it brings only problems).
- increase resolution of animation
- increase and change Pixel Filter (in your case: Box / Grid 4 / Filter 0.7 / FSAA / Rotated grid is bad choice) Animation doesn`t need to be "sharp" so I suggest: FSAA Quadratic Grid3 or 4, Filter 1.0. Anyway you do in post process Motion Blur so sharpening has no sense. In low res you will never get good AA because...engine has not enough space to smooth pixels! Why everybody (Maxwell, V-ray, etc) render HiRes over 1500 pix. Of course AA engine is Kray is not perfect (but this is not big difference comparing to other software). In K3 will be for sure better and faster.
I try avoid that regions in animation (if it is possible of course..Moiré patterns - nightmare in animations!)
- increasing AA Grid will bring nothing! Value 4 is maximum. In low Res images is just not enough space for extra smooth pixels....
- best idea is render animation in FullHD

2. Reflection blur problem coming from too strong LEM light sources. Personally I use 0/300 (sic!) and is ...perfect But is rule number one: I do not use strong LEM lights! The maximum level is 300% of luminescence. So if my LEM light is too dark - then I use extra Area Light or Spherical Light. Actually I use LEM only to simulate reflections from bulbs - the main light is from physical lights. New LEM system is in K3 now so problem is solved. I did not test it but I suspect (from G. test images) will possible use very strong LEM light without any problems

[khan973]

Thanks, as usual, precise infos.
My resolution is 2048 x 858
I need a bit of bump (at least normal) because it's wood, leather.
I used sharp setting because the animation is really slow. Almost too slow to see motion blur.

I have Physical light and areas only in that scene. I rarely use LEM over 200%

[khan973]

I did another render with Quadratic and Filter 1.0, it's still crap and I'm on a very close view so it's not like it's small details from far.
It flickers on reflective objects and on lines.

[Janusz Biela]

I did another render with Quadratic and Filter 1.0, it's still crap and I'm on a very close view so it's not like it's small details from far.
It flickers on reflective objects and on lines.

Yes, moire effect is nightmare in animation....apparently you will never render this correct I suggest use ID map in post process and blur this region. Anyway can you show one frame?

[khan973]

For reflection I use Blurring threshold 0.0001 / Min 1500 / Max 2000 and it's better.
Plus FSAA Quadratic Grid4, Filter 1.0 has made a bit of improvements, thanks.
Unfortunately, I'm under NDA, can't share yet, but I will ASAP.

[Janusz Biela]

For reflection I use Blurring threshold 0.0001 / Min 1500 / Max 2000 and it's better.
Plus FSAA Quadratic Grid4, Filter 1.0 has made a bit of improvements, thanks.
Unfortunately, I'm under NDA, can't share yet, but I will ASAP.

You do not need that high blur quality level (it will make very long render)
the 400/0 is really maximum. If you use that high it means you have very strong light LEM surfaces.

[khan973]

I only use Areas in that scene.
It's really annoying because yes, renders are very long but without this, it's just way to noisy.
It's sad but that's why most of the time I avoid Kray for animations. I never managed to get clean Antialiased scenes when there is blurred reflections and textures with normal. Vray and native lightwave don't do that so I definitely think there is an issue.