Hi, I had to do a lot of small animations in a few days, not very happy with the results (bad AA even at 5).
I tried different things for animated scenes and I can't figure out which one is better between Photon cache and GI cache I also tried no cache with QMC for scenes where the sun was moving.
Does somebody know when it's better to use one or the other?
Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
khan973 wrote:Hi, I had to do a lot of small animations in a few days, not very happy with the results (bad AA even at 5).
I tried different things for animated scenes and I can't figure out which one is better between Photon cache and GI cache I also tried no cache with QMC for scenes where the sun was moving.
Does somebody know when it's better to use one or the other?
...why soon I start new topic only about animation system. There will be complete solution for K2.x.
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Ok, fine, than you, do you know when?
I'm animating again in 2 weeks.
I'm still continuing my tests though
The results and rendering time really differ if my scene has lots of instances or not, if it's interior (lots of bouces + lots or reflection) or if it's exterior.
I see 4 major cases that could be covered: interior / exterior / lots of instances / lots of reflection (& blur). There might be subcategories (animated objects, animated lights, lots of lights, areas / lumi polys) but it's simple from the first 4 I think.
I'm animating again in 2 weeks.
I'm still continuing my tests though
The results and rendering time really differ if my scene has lots of instances or not, if it's interior (lots of bouces + lots or reflection) or if it's exterior.
I see 4 major cases that could be covered: interior / exterior / lots of instances / lots of reflection (& blur). There might be subcategories (animated objects, animated lights, lots of lights, areas / lumi polys) but it's simple from the first 4 I think.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
...do not worry I have my plans.
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Do you think you'll cover this subject soon?
Because for now my biggest issues are long render time for poor quality (splotches or noise or very bad AA even at 6) and no good exr depth along tga exports of other passes.
If I can't solve it I will just use standard LW render. Light is slightly less appealing but renders are way faster and I have a very nice AA on leaves + possibility to export all kind of passes.
I'd love to use Kray though but it doesn't seem like the best solution for me right now with my own knowledge and issues I've been facing for a long time with Kray.
Because for now my biggest issues are long render time for poor quality (splotches or noise or very bad AA even at 6) and no good exr depth along tga exports of other passes.
If I can't solve it I will just use standard LW render. Light is slightly less appealing but renders are way faster and I have a very nice AA on leaves + possibility to export all kind of passes.
I'd love to use Kray though but it doesn't seem like the best solution for me right now with my own knowledge and issues I've been facing for a long time with Kray.
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
What kind of animation are you doing? Archiviz with camera moving only or objects moving also?
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Mostly flythrough
Sometimes cars but I prefer to add them in post.
I have people also. I'm trying Mocap to add more living people.
When light changes its mostly day to night changes.
Sometimes cars but I prefer to add them in post.
I have people also. I'm trying Mocap to add more living people.
When light changes its mostly day to night changes.
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
I usually bake background with shared gi option then render.
Render moving elements with shadow using final gather interp with high fg settings next.
Comp both in post.
Never had success with uncached(bruteforce) for moving elements in kray. Rendertime is too long in kray with uncache and there's still flickering. Lightwave native is better with moving elements using monte carlo interp especially lw 11.
I have not tried allow animation mode in kray yet. Maybe this is a secret weapon to enable rendering the background in bake mode then moving elements in interpolated mode. Not sure if it will work with deforming mesh.
My plan is to use kray for bg since its fast baking with good render time and then octane for moving elements because its !00% fullproof with deforming mesh but render is longer but still better than trying to get good settings for different scenes. That will make rendering less of hassle.
Render moving elements with shadow using final gather interp with high fg settings next.
Comp both in post.
Never had success with uncached(bruteforce) for moving elements in kray. Rendertime is too long in kray with uncache and there's still flickering. Lightwave native is better with moving elements using monte carlo interp especially lw 11.
I have not tried allow animation mode in kray yet. Maybe this is a secret weapon to enable rendering the background in bake mode then moving elements in interpolated mode. Not sure if it will work with deforming mesh.
My plan is to use kray for bg since its fast baking with good render time and then octane for moving elements because its !00% fullproof with deforming mesh but render is longer but still better than trying to get good settings for different scenes. That will make rendering less of hassle.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
There is some misunderstanding, why I will start topic for animation. Animation has his own rules (very restricted!) and knowledge for that is NECESSARY!
Without this KNOWLEDGE users just render "blindly" and 99% users just use Kray (but this is whatever it can be V-ray, same system) wrongly.
I will not start write whole information here about that - it will be special topic.
btw
Path Tracing is the best method ever for everything (no doubts).
DOESN'T`t exist flickering in Path Tracing - this is impossible.
Path Tracing is NO INTERPOLATED method why is so slow.
Path Tracing is future for rendering...but in next minimum 5-10 years but also in the same time Final Gathering will change also.
Using Path Tracing for exteriors is very good idea (will explain later in special topic)
Using Path Tracing for Interiors is the worst choosing ever (will explain later why)
Kray was designed SPECIALLY for animation (very accurate and static Photon Map - it is necessary to render with no flickering errors) and Lightwave is just far a way from Kray quality.
Without this KNOWLEDGE users just render "blindly" and 99% users just use Kray (but this is whatever it can be V-ray, same system) wrongly.
I will not start write whole information here about that - it will be special topic.
btw
Path Tracing is the best method ever for everything (no doubts).
DOESN'T`t exist flickering in Path Tracing - this is impossible.
Path Tracing is NO INTERPOLATED method why is so slow.
Path Tracing is future for rendering...but in next minimum 5-10 years but also in the same time Final Gathering will change also.
Using Path Tracing for exteriors is very good idea (will explain later in special topic)
Using Path Tracing for Interiors is the worst choosing ever (will explain later why)
Kray was designed SPECIALLY for animation (very accurate and static Photon Map - it is necessary to render with no flickering errors) and Lightwave is just far a way from Kray quality.
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Hello.
Needed to create an animation of the interior apartments, but get too much noise. There are no ready-made presets for Global Illumination settings for the animation of the interiors?
Needed to create an animation of the interior apartments, but get too much noise. There are no ready-made presets for Global Illumination settings for the animation of the interiors?
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Hellopromity wrote:Hello.
Needed to create an animation of the interior apartments, but get too much noise. There are no ready-made presets for Global Illumination settings for the animation of the interiors?
Can you show one or two renders? I suspect you talk about reflection blur noise - if yes then it is completely different problem not connected with GI solution. Also you can post kray.cfg file here.
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Second - here are two images of the same frame, rendered one after another. Why such difference?
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Thanks for these files.
There in cfg Kray file are some major wrong Kray settings, also in LW with light.
Because is too much to write about these subjects and I suspect also you are beginner of Kray software, so please contact me via Skype: biela1972.
If you can not, I will write here answers but it will take time to explain everything...
There in cfg Kray file are some major wrong Kray settings, also in LW with light.
Because is too much to write about these subjects and I suspect also you are beginner of Kray software, so please contact me via Skype: biela1972.
If you can not, I will write here answers but it will take time to explain everything...
Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Any idea of when you can explain more about PHOTON CACHE VS GI CACHE ?
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Animation: Photon cache vs GI cache
Hello!
Yes I did not forget. I found problem with Photon Map cache in Kray - there is something wrong with loading Photon Map (do not mistake it with Global Illumination Samples)...it looks as in each frame Kray shoot photons independently even when Photon Map was created before!
I sent this problem to G. because for huge scenes this is only one solution for rendering animation. Sending 2-4 Giga GI file to render farm has no sense and also rendering GI Bake take also a lot of time.
I have to wait for his answer.
Yes I did not forget. I found problem with Photon Map cache in Kray - there is something wrong with loading Photon Map (do not mistake it with Global Illumination Samples)...it looks as in each frame Kray shoot photons independently even when Photon Map was created before!
I sent this problem to G. because for huge scenes this is only one solution for rendering animation. Sending 2-4 Giga GI file to render farm has no sense and also rendering GI Bake take also a lot of time.
I have to wait for his answer.