dear krayians
i know you are testing ...with joy but how about giving some answers for a wonderer..
1- I heard KRAY doesnt support ClipMap feature. How can you guys pull of a big big exterior -with trees-bushes- forest like render with KRAY. Our clients are located between mainly blue sky and sea and forest. So we really need to use that feature.
If there is not a chance for it, VUE XSTREAM or HD Instance kinda workflow can be recommended?
2- Will KRAY have a easy to adjust settings -even Some presets? Preset for sunlight through windows, or tungsten light, or some other light sources. Presets would be so lovely. Because we all work in measures , i think it can be achievable.
3- How fast it is ?
4- Can KRAY have its own Viper-Fprime like previewing window?
5- BEST
pre 1.7 questions
First off all we don't discuss Kray 1.7, second We dont discuss Kray 1.7 
Nah just kiddin. We are bound to not discuss features of 1.7 since we still have some work to do before release but i promise you im probably more anxious to show what pre 1.7 can do than you are. I cant answer your questions with numbers or features right away but all of what you have expressed concern of is also a concern for all of us working with Kray. The only little hint's i can give you for the moment is that Kray is very fast at what it do compared to everything else, trees and forrests will be no problems. For a preview system to be working fully you need to rely on brute force a la Fprime since it's hard to shoot photons,sort them,build irradiancemap, and shoot Finalgather rays at the same time. They simply need to be done one step at a time. One solution though would be to use the cached (already shoot and done) data and only let kray update surfaces but since surfaces change light overall i dont think this would be such a great ide'a. A technique called Metropolis Light transport (MLT) aka Maxwell render or Fprime, is a bruteforce algorithm that are very easy to do in a progressive manner and this might be something in the future.
Nah just kiddin. We are bound to not discuss features of 1.7 since we still have some work to do before release but i promise you im probably more anxious to show what pre 1.7 can do than you are. I cant answer your questions with numbers or features right away but all of what you have expressed concern of is also a concern for all of us working with Kray. The only little hint's i can give you for the moment is that Kray is very fast at what it do compared to everything else, trees and forrests will be no problems. For a preview system to be working fully you need to rely on brute force a la Fprime since it's hard to shoot photons,sort them,build irradiancemap, and shoot Finalgather rays at the same time. They simply need to be done one step at a time. One solution though would be to use the cached (already shoot and done) data and only let kray update surfaces but since surfaces change light overall i dont think this would be such a great ide'a. A technique called Metropolis Light transport (MLT) aka Maxwell render or Fprime, is a bruteforce algorithm that are very easy to do in a progressive manner and this might be something in the future.
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Captain Obvious
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:15 pm
- Location: London, UK
If you want an Fprime-like preview, get Fprime. Both Kray and Fprime use Lightwave materials and lights, and they will look similar in most respects. The only significant difference I can think of between them (aside from how they function) is that Kray does not need "air" polygons, unlike Fprime. Fprime works great as a lighting/texturing previewer even when you want to render in Kray.
Re: pre 1.7 questions
Who said Kray 1.7 won't support Clipmaps?1- I heard KRAY doesnt support ClipMap feature. How can you guys pull of a big big exterior -with trees-bushes- forest like render with KRAY. Our clients are located between mainly blue sky and sea and forest. So we really need to use that feature.
Who said Kray 1.7 won't support instances?If there is not a chance for it, VUE XSTREAM or HD Instance kinda workflow can be recommended?
It will when more people start to use it and exchange settings and presets. We could have also a material and light preset website if users are up for it.2- Will KRAY have a easy to adjust settings -even Some presets? Preset for sunlight through windows, or tungsten light, or some other light sources. Presets would be so lovely. Because we all work in measures , i think it can be achievable.
More than you think.3- How fast it is ?
I guess it could but then it wouldn't be so fast.4- Can KRAY have its own Viper-Fprime like previewing window?
- Jure
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Captain Obvious
- Posts: 165
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:15 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: pre 1.7 questions
jure wrote: Who said Kray 1.7 won't support instances?
More than you think.3- How fast it is ?
Gah!
dear krayians
so there IS ClipMap feature in 1.7 . that is really good.
And KRAYIAN PRESET CENTRAL would be just awesome.
Plus KRAY video tutorials...
Last question..If i get KRAY full version for how long i can have free update ..till 2nd version?
And when i purchase it , just this purchase is enough for me to be a 1.7 beta tester?
Some folks in NT forums dont get it but if there is a future for Lightwave that will be coming from this tool. We are all so fast modellers, if we have VRAY like fast GI, we will be unstoppable.
BEST
so there IS ClipMap feature in 1.7 . that is really good.
And KRAYIAN PRESET CENTRAL would be just awesome.
Plus KRAY video tutorials...
Last question..If i get KRAY full version for how long i can have free update ..till 2nd version?
And when i purchase it , just this purchase is enough for me to be a 1.7 beta tester?
Some folks in NT forums dont get it but if there is a future for Lightwave that will be coming from this tool. We are all so fast modellers, if we have VRAY like fast GI, we will be unstoppable.
BEST
I'd also be interested to know those answers, last question in particular.
I've been lurking here a while and playing with the latest demo, which is great btw, but would like just a little more info before I invest (for me it's more a question of time rather than money).
Can even meet one of you in a dark alley if I must:D:D
Regards,
Alan K.
I've been lurking here a while and playing with the latest demo, which is great btw, but would like just a little more info before I invest (for me it's more a question of time rather than money).
Can even meet one of you in a dark alley if I must
:D:D Regards,
Alan K.
tyrot wrote:Last question..If i get KRAY full version for how long i can have free update ..till 2nd version?
And when i purchase it , just this purchase is enough for me to be a 1.7 beta tester?
Until today date we are 5 persons running pre 1.7. We work tightly together and cooperate 24/7. Kray is a very fresh renderengine programmed by one man, Grzegorz Gtanski. I beleive Kray saw the light for lightwave at Feb 2005. Fprime have been around for 3 years? When you see 1.7 i beleive and hope you will be stunned of the speed and quality you can get from it. I dont think Grzegorz have any plans for an open betaprogram for everyone but if more people requests it im sure he will reconsider it. I cant answer for future upgrades, what Grzegorz wants to debit or not, but he is a generous person who want's happy customers. The license today is also generous since you can run Kray on 5 machines no matter who many cpu's they have. What do you think is reasonable in these matters? If you have suggestions im sure Grzegorz will listen.
Thanks for your comments and honesty Silverlw.
I honestly appreciate the effort Grzegorz has put into Kray, and the results he has gotten from working on it (in his spare time by the sounds of it) are absolutely amazing. I also appreciate the time and effort the Shadowy Five are putting into it at the moment. From what you outlined above the dynamics of the offer are generous enough for my tastes. From where I'm sitting my only questions would be regarding features and the integration/workflow issues with LW. As well as a rough release date ... but that's pushing it by the sounds of it as you all seem busy with ironing it out while Grzegorz continues/finishes his studies and codes (amazing effort). I guess most of us here would be FPrime users so we're all familiar what benefits that brings to the table so as far as a previewer goes that's not really my concern. The progresive refinement in FP is a great feature and would be great to see in Kray, but only if approprite / needed. If it's fast and smooth then one would not really need those refining passes. Biggest bonus of FPrime, and hopefully Kray is it's faithfullnest to LW. In that I mean you don't need to move the earth to get exact/similar results with materials, objects and so forth. Sounds like clip maps are on the cards so that's one less question & the prospect of instancing sounds sweet.
I guess you answered my q's regarding beta stage and it seems like one would have to have a strong application to be included in that group at this stage. I guess all thet remains to be said is all the best and god speed
I'll be eagerly watching this space with anticipation as you five seem to be bursting with wanting to stun us all with what you've been working with.
Good luck guys.
Alan K.
I honestly appreciate the effort Grzegorz has put into Kray, and the results he has gotten from working on it (in his spare time by the sounds of it) are absolutely amazing. I also appreciate the time and effort the Shadowy Five are putting into it at the moment. From what you outlined above the dynamics of the offer are generous enough for my tastes. From where I'm sitting my only questions would be regarding features and the integration/workflow issues with LW. As well as a rough release date ... but that's pushing it by the sounds of it as you all seem busy with ironing it out while Grzegorz continues/finishes his studies and codes (amazing effort). I guess most of us here would be FPrime users so we're all familiar what benefits that brings to the table so as far as a previewer goes that's not really my concern. The progresive refinement in FP is a great feature and would be great to see in Kray, but only if approprite / needed. If it's fast and smooth then one would not really need those refining passes. Biggest bonus of FPrime, and hopefully Kray is it's faithfullnest to LW. In that I mean you don't need to move the earth to get exact/similar results with materials, objects and so forth. Sounds like clip maps are on the cards so that's one less question & the prospect of instancing sounds sweet.
I guess you answered my q's regarding beta stage and it seems like one would have to have a strong application to be included in that group at this stage. I guess all thet remains to be said is all the best and god speed
I'll be eagerly watching this space with anticipation as you five seem to be bursting with wanting to stun us all with what you've been working with.
Good luck guys.
Alan K.
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barnabythebear
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:01 pm
- Location: Kettering UK
Hiya,
Another lurker following this interesting thread. This may be a bit premature but i'd also like to know if there are any plans for a Universal Binary once LWUB has shipped?
I emailed a few days ago to ask if the licence for Kray was dual platform so that I can use Kray with Bootcamp before any UB release, but haven't heard anything back.
ta
nige.
Another lurker following this interesting thread. This may be a bit premature but i'd also like to know if there are any plans for a Universal Binary once LWUB has shipped?
I emailed a few days ago to ask if the licence for Kray was dual platform so that I can use Kray with Bootcamp before any UB release, but haven't heard anything back.
ta
nige.
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"I'm full of dust and guitars"
Syd Barrett - 1971
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"I'm full of dust and guitars"
Syd Barrett - 1971
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phile_forum
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:12 pm
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Fascinating thread.
I'm having a great time with 1.6 but, like others in this thread, I guess I'm not quite ready to make my investment yet. It sounds like 1.7 could tip things though!
The licensing deal for Kray is indeed very generous, but I'm unclear on how I could take full advantage of it. I have a couple of render boxes, which I can use via screamernet, but only one LW seat. When you say we're allowed to use Kray on five PCs, does this mean we need five LW seats too? For production work I regularly distribute jobs between my various render boxes but I don't currently see a way to do this with Kray, and this would severely limit its potential for me.
Are there any plans to produce a standalone (node) version of Kray that could be fed a scene file and left to get on with the rendering unsupervised?
More power to you guys. I'm lovin Kray.
Phil
I'm having a great time with 1.6 but, like others in this thread, I guess I'm not quite ready to make my investment yet. It sounds like 1.7 could tip things though!
The licensing deal for Kray is indeed very generous, but I'm unclear on how I could take full advantage of it. I have a couple of render boxes, which I can use via screamernet, but only one LW seat. When you say we're allowed to use Kray on five PCs, does this mean we need five LW seats too? For production work I regularly distribute jobs between my various render boxes but I don't currently see a way to do this with Kray, and this would severely limit its potential for me.
Are there any plans to produce a standalone (node) version of Kray that could be fed a scene file and left to get on with the rendering unsupervised?
More power to you guys. I'm lovin Kray.
Phil
No you only need 1 LW seat.phile wrote: The licensing deal for Kray is indeed very generous, but I'm unclear on how I could take full advantage of it. I have a couple of render boxes, which I can use via screamernet, but only one LW seat. When you say we're allowed to use Kray on five PCs, does this mean we need five LW seats too?
It's going to be included with 1.7.phile wrote: Are there any plans to produce a standalone (node) version of Kray that could be fed a scene file and left to get on with the rendering unsupervised?
- Jure
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phile_forum
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:12 pm
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Ditto phile
Heck I should invest just from a patriotic point of view. What is it about Poland and Lightwave ... so many talented developers (including the recently departed) from that neck of the woods. Maybe NT is in charge of the water supply or something definitely didn't rub off on me when I was there - LOL
phileHeck I should invest just from a patriotic point of view. What is it about Poland and Lightwave ... so many talented developers (including the recently departed) from that neck of the woods. Maybe NT is in charge of the water supply or something
definitely didn't rub off on me when I was there - LOLItems active/inactive state
Will kray 1.7 be able to see an items active/inactive state in the scene editor? would be great to have this feature to temporarily enable or disable objects or lights during testing stage.