Price about 3d work (architectural) ?

[phile_forum]

I dont agree with you with charging people according on your time spent working...lets face it, you could be a much much slower modeler then me, also you could be using Maxwell for rendering and I could be using Kray.
Its simply an individual thing!

Nonsense. If I quote on a job but the client goes with my competitor because he quoted lower then it's up to me to work faster or lower my hourly rate.

Once you have built up a relationship with a client, he will know roughly how much you're going to cost for a given piece of work anyway.

One approach that may prove profitable when you are approached by a new client: offer to do the first job at a fixed price (although make sure the deliverables are set in stone before signing on the line so they don't take too much advantage, and make the price realistic by basing it on an hourly rate, then discounting it a bit). You may end up working for less money than if you had specified an hourly rate, but the new client will be pleased at getting a good deal, and he will have a good look at the kind of quality you can produce. This may count in your favour on future commissions. I only offer this kind of deal when I want to attract and keep a client who is likely to be a source of plenty of future work.

Phil

[albertos2008]

hi to all..
I've found an automatic "rendering price calculator".. sorry but is in italian language..

http://www.lwita.com/calcolatore/index.php

[3dworks]

i'd like to chime in at this point. when speaking about pricing, it's not only the time you are sitting in your studio behind your desk and clicking a mouse. it is also a lot about final quality, know-how, and even about support during and after the production. as one example, i'm offering to my clients a password protected preview webpage where they can see the WIP of any work. another aspect could be if, as an architect or an industrial designer, you are also doing design work for a visualization. it needs extra work and skills to design a fassade if you are only getting a few abstract sketches from the client - it is an extra work which has to be charged for and which is not only related to mouse clicking.

another very important point: don't forget the whole aspect of how an image or an animation will be used by the client. when i charge for an image or an animation i always include expressly the right to use of those works (basically, a license) for print or publish. it is part of the contract on which is based any work i'm producing for a client. it is usually simply put under the label 'included' in my contracts, where generally i charge separately for a modeling, a rendering and a compositing part. including this right in an explicit (written) way, means also to make the customer aware about what he/she is actually paying the money for!

as a background: in europen countries, afaik you generally cannot sell a copyright, but for graphic artists or photographers it is common to define how and how long their artwork can be used. this licensing aspect is important, as anyone 'using' your work is not only simply 'enjoying' it privately, but producing a value surplus with it. for example, an investor is literally selling a big project with your images. such reproduction rights or rights to use you imagery can be exclusive or general, local or international, limited in time or unlimited - which practically can make a big pricing difference.

in any case, don't forget to reserve the right to use you own images for you portfolio or website at any time!

markus

[mk]

Hi ,

Yes I got the job.
I sold 4 views for 4000 euros. (I received only the floor view in PDF format when I had to give a price).
Few days after, my client send me some references ( scan or jpg to show me the kind of fourniture I must create).

But I have lost a lot of time ( the client don't give me quick feedback and approval when I send pictures ) and there is a lot of change about colors and fournitures.
We are not in the same country ( we have <> 6 hours ) (it's hard to join him by phone and most of the feedback is done by mail).

and to finish; My client is a client of someone else .... that means my client need to validate my work to his client.
It's my first experience in archiviz and certainly the last.

I spend 5 weeks for something that could be done in 2. and it's not finish yet (note: I am not charging the extra work... because I sold a "global price" but I gave a deadline (in 1 week) because I am feed up with this project. My client is scared that I stop the project and the relationship is cold.

Now, I am working 16 h/days to finish the job in 1 week and I still not have approuval about the current state.

Voil? my story.
the good side : I discovered Kray: very powerfull and fast power engine, some LW worflow limitations when you're working with a lot of materials and objects...

[Pheidian]

wow, my eyes dropped to the floor when I read that you got the quote in that price trough... phew... Sounds very high...


Anyway, you got it so that's not a problem, but this what you're experiencing is normal in this business I think. I'm sure you didnt DO the work all 5 weeks, but there was gaps since you had to wait for the clients aproval and changes...

This is where it comes handy that you charge for example 1/3 in advance if it seems a bigger / longer project. I don't know if you did this already with the project.

You just gotta keep your head cool, and do some other work in between of waiting the comments, I've got also a work that's been on hold and with minor fixes once per two days, should have been ready by now, but since client is the thing getting behind their schedules, fine by me, then I have time to do something else

[3dworks]

hey, compliments for getting the job! price seems correct, if the project was of medium complexity.

having a client presenting your work to his client is happening quite often in the archviz area, as many time you have to deal with graphic design or public relation studios doing a campaign for an investor. one tip here is to specify in advance the number of revisions of a design which is possible within the given budget. it is also good practice to have an agreement with the client in case of major changes to retarget the budget and postpone the delivery of the final images.

cheers

markus

ps. if possible, can you show us the work, when finished? would be nice to see...

[Mario]

So you got 1000€ per one view?
I would want to see you try this in my country
You could max get 100-150€ per view
My God 1000€ per view and you said you had 4 views 4000€ for, 2 weeks of work!

Can yo u tell me whats the avarage payment in your country?
Here, people for 1 month of work (with univesity diploma) get cca. 1000€

[3dworks]

can you share with us what country you are living in?

of course, all income is always relative to the cost of living. 4000 EUR might seem much in one country where you need, say 800 EUR per month to live decently, and not so much in a country where you need 2500...

if you are not doing this for hobby, in any case, to the cost of living add the cost of hardware, software (btw, when pirated software will be used, this cost sometimes is not existing - others will pay for you), studio rent, ecc. ecc.

markus

[geo_n]

So you got 1000€ per one view?
I would want to see you try this in my country
You could max get 100-150€ per view
My God 1000€ per view and you said you had 4 views 4000€ for, 2 weeks of work!

Can yo u tell me whats the avarage payment in your country?
Here, people for 1 month of work (with univesity diploma) get cca. 1000€

150euro per view? That's too cheap. Dont sell out that low. Average per image especially realistic stills is around 500-1000US especially if it would take so many edits from the client. It took him 5 weeks. Got him stressed so I think the price is about right.
Of course in china its 100US per view. Glad I dont live there.

[Haven1000]

I'd be very wary of giving your client the impression that you've invoiced them on the basis of "price per image".

The price per image does not scale in real world terms, 1 image of a job may only take a few man hours where as another may be many hundred times that, but the client may not realise this. It's your job to educate them of the process (which may be in the simplest terms) so they can have a greater appreciation to the "real" cost of an image.

I normally give the client a quote on the outset of the project. I figure out how many hours it will take, plus hours for 1 minor change and multiply that by an hourly rate. Some cases may require built-in costs like software/ content.

I find this way to be the fairest on the client and ourselves. The client gets an accurate cost (depending on your hourly rate ) and there is less risk of you making a possible loss.

[Mario]

Thank you !!! Thank you very much !!!
It was the answer I was expecting.
as hard
I live in France.
It was hard to find this info trought the net.

My client will give me a top view ( Archicad file (dxf ) , I have to make in 3D. Only one room, with fourniture (they will give me references (pictures)).

To resume: Modeling, texturing + rendering based on 2D plan + some photo reference for the furniture. And render 4 view of the same room (photoreal).

Some friends told me , I can ask 1000 euros/ view.

I will try to rise the price up and see.
It's a new experience for me.


Do you have a exemple of the pipeline from Archicad to Lightwave ?

Thanks you !
mk

mk can you please tell me what are avarage incomings in your country?
Thanx!

[geo_n]

Just to give some idea of archi price here in japan using vray.
http://www.enising.co.jp/build_perth/price/index.html

120000yen typical exteriors. 180000 yen for high rise exteriors.
100000yen for typical interiors. 180000yen for high rise interiors.
convert the currency in xe.com


I really think people who do professional 3d work for less than 400US are really getting conned. You have no idea how much the developer or architect actually profited for every project.

[Mario]

Thats 1000€ also for a typical exterior shot.

[geo_n]

Thats 1000€ also for a typical exterior shot.

exactly. its the same range as mk's fee.

[Pheidian]

Well, if you're calculating your prices like I am, with 65 euros / hour rate and work fast, you can get pretty decent money without charging "per image high price".

We are said to be doing work quite cheap, but it's reality that we can create it fast and without losing our own time for doing another projects... For interiors, it's roughly 6-8 hour work for one still image, including modelling and final rendering (depending on resolution of course).

That in mind, 65 euros / hour = 10400 euros / month salary... not bad considering I end up giving price quotes like 1300-1500 euros for 4 interiors renders from the same flat (kitchen, living room, bathroom and bedroom)...