Pro Arch vol II preview

[khan973_forum]

Ouch!
I bought the first one, I learned a little bit from the scene, but to me the lack of explanation wasn't giving the vol 1 its full power.
Education in general is not about showing you one case, but explaining you principles that will led you to understand them and "think", adapt for each case.
By showing one case, to me I'll call it observation. Observation + technique + ideas make you do everything we want.
- Observation (+ crits) happen on the forum thank to people sharing their settings.
- Technique comes a little bit from the wiki manual (actually, I understood a lot when translating it).
- Ideas, you get them or not.

The Pro Arch 1 to me was more or less what I can find on this forum, but I was still happy to buy it to support further quality tutorials and also because I can eventually make money from it (so it's fair).
150 is pretty expensive indeed, but it's at least half or one third of a daily rate and if you think big, think about how much daily rates you can sell ones you master quality renders...
However, I think that for this price it has to be more consistant.
I'm conscious that you're not writing a Kray Manual, but if it's dedicated to pros, pros dont't have the same scene to render over and over again, the scene change all the time, and it needs explanation to get the optimal settings for a given scene.
It needs to show different techniques for the same result, and also tips and tricks.
But if it's only scenes like n°1, I won't be able to support it, I might just take a day off and read all the forum

We see great renders on the forum, a lot of people taking their precious time to explain, so it has to be as much valuable if not more...

Still, I thank you for creating material for Kray, it will probably help it to shine.

Peace

[florian]

Hi guys,
I think 150€ is alot of money but I think it will be worth it (looking at the provided image and knowing Pheidians and Johnys work). Its not only the scene setup that one can tranfer to other scenes, you also get the models and materials.

But I also understand that 150€ might be too much for some, especially non-pro users. Its hard to predict but it might just be that it will sell more at a lower price and generate more money in the end that way.

Regarding the kray manual: I realy can't understand all the complaining going on here. The online Wiki explains everything pretty well so its easy to understand the tech behind it. Now it is your job to apply that to your scenes. No manual can do that for you. If that is not enough, there are the forum and the chat. And even without that there are the build in presets that should enable anyone to get a good render in decent time.

Cheers, Florian

[joreldraw]

I think all buyer not interested in the scene objetcs.
I am more interested in why place light on her position or how do the material to look nice.

For me scene is only the support to check graphically what are doing and how...not same that Arch Interior i read up. If you like to send scene please make 2 versions to do this more cheap to people dont need interior premades.

1.- Scene
2.- Manual

[khan973_forum]

I kind of agree with you Florian, but when you talk about pro, do you seriously think you will have one day to re-use one of the objects and that it's worth the product by itself?
You can get tons of free textures and objects on the web. I was even surprised to see that you get those same objects in Evermotion dvds...
So to me it won't be the main motivation to buy this new release. Only the good explanations will be.
And if the scene is really optimised (good quality, low rendertime) it might be usefull too.

[Pheidian]

You have propably understand us wrong. The base idea of the package is not the scene and models, it's that it includes everything. We are not talking about Kray manual, but very deep explanations with the scene to give the understanding of using Kray from scene to scene receiving good solid renders.

V-ray tutorials and explanations are 99% crap, if you check for example evermotion forums, there are 3-5 people who make excellent renders, everything else is crap, even though there are these "good tutorials for explaining V-ray". It just aint that simple to produce high quality renders, no matter what renderer you use. And these V-ray professionals have not revealed basically anything about their setups, rather than showing screenshots of their lights or similar...

This in mind, it should be taken into account, that not every man in V-ray scene can deploy the high end stuff, but most of them just make even crappier quality than 99% of the Kray users now.

We are aware that the price is high, it was a known decision and long thinking, but since we are really giving everythng out there, we decided to put the price that really shows it worth it. Not selling 20 euro crap, or 120 euro crap (ok, evermotion is still content, not setups and learning anything).

Cheers!

[khan973_forum]

Thanks for the explanation, it's pretty clear now.

[geo_n]

sorry I don't think vray tutorials are crap. On the contrary they are better and theres more vray tutorial than any archiviz renderer tutorials on the net, mental ray probably second to vray. To be honest I don't struggle to find tips on vray because of the number of users you can ask questions and someone will give an answer.
And the works are not crap either. Lets not let our bias blind us and not see what is good in other works so that we can improve our own. It doesn't benefit us to say we're the best when we're not. I dont think the works here are crap http://www.vismasters.com/gallery.cfm not even 50% are crap to me
And if you go to sites like cgarchitect, 3dallusion, there are so many pros sharing tips, setups which I dont think are useless. In fact they are valuable even if they are screenshots.
Lets not bash other people if they are using vray because who knows they actually might be better.
If a pro wants to charge for giving away tips or technique, I dont see a problem with that. Many people are charging for video tutorials on the net. I bought some myself recently for 3dcoat. So I hope rendervision success with volume 2. Any video tutorial included?

[nico]

hi pheidian,
can you post the render in high resolution?
Could you describe the pdf, number page....?

I am convinced of your good faith, but I think after years of 3d, the optimal price of this product is maximum 100 €, not for lack of quality, mind you, but by the number of likely buyers.

I am convinced, and it includes you, that people will buy anyway proarch because there are no other alternatives but you have to be careful if more users buy the proarch in society....

i decide on when it will be selling the volume, now i see the answers of all kray user....

to jure or Grzegorz ask politely answer the question: the version of Kray final update will be free for those who bought the OB or pay?

thanks all

[adk]

... if it's quality material and information, which it sounds like it is, than it's worth every penny IMHO.
If it saves me x to y amount of hours of hunting down information / figuring things out / solidifying understanding and testing ideas then the material has done it's job & more.
I'm just grateful & appreciative that folks out there are willing to share it - for free or otherwise.

as for these sorts of calculations ...

10 -20 buyers x 150€ = 1500-2000€
100-200 buyers x 50€= 5.000-10.000€

they really place no value on the quality / amount of time and effort invested - just on the final $ to be made.
If we don't start to value our own work and worth even 50€ might be too much in the future.

So how about aiming at 100-200 buyers x 150€ which would actually paint a much better picture for all of us here.

...sorry did not mean to ramble on so much

[jure]

hi pheidian,
to jure or Grzegorz ask politely answer the question: the version of Kray final update will be free for those who bought the OB or pay?

thanks all

Of course it's going to be for free! You bought version 2.0 not beta version. Beta version is there just so that you have something to play until we finish the product.

[nico]

Of course it's going to be for free! You bought version 2.0 not beta version. Beta version is there just so that you have something to play until we finish the product.

this is a good news!!!!

[erwin zwart]

this is a good news!!!!

no, it is old news since kray 1.7 Open Beta 1 you would get free 2.0 upgrade, so all present kray owners are covered.

[nico]

no, it is old news since kray 1.7 Open Beta 1 you would get free 2.0 upgrade, so all present kray owners are covered.

I heard different voices ... and hence my question.

[Pheidian]

To clarify some points. It's not all just "scene objects" you get in the package, if you compare to evermotion. You will get COMPLETE surfacing setup for each object, materialtype (fabric, bedsheet,porcelain,chrome,floortile,floorparquette and so on...).

So differing from the "content packs" that the "competition" offers, is nothing to do with our scene package.

This is ofcourse just a note about the materials and scene objects, also including the scene setup and lights and everything else need to produce the quality of this type (including some photoshop tips for minor tweaking)

[larry_g1s]

Thanks for the update Pheidian. My thoughts....I to understand that 150€ is a bit high, something Pheidian has willing admitted, and in an economy such as this one present, it will be difficult for many to consider (as already expressed). That said, the problem I have with some of the negativity, is sooo many people on these forums going gaga over the renders Render Vision has produced & rightfully wanting to achieve that level, but when they produce something to help people achieve that, with materials/objects/scenes/etc. no less, suddenly it's ridiculous for them to charge something that was once deemed invaluable knowledge. Having worked with these guys, I know it's taken them many many many many hours of hard work on their end to acquire the necessary knowledge and skill to produce the renders they do & in a desirable time frame. I think to expect that information to be shard so inexpensively is a bit unrealistic.

I'm kind of with Florian that "150€ might be too much for some, especially non-pro users. Its hard to predict but it might just be that it will sell more at a lower price and generate more money in the end that way." But I don't think RV should be reamed so negatively for wanting to reap what they deem fair, for sharing this type of information.

I too would like to see some high res. examples Pheidian. Also, how do you plan on achieving a "very deep explanations with the scene to give the understanding of using Kray from scene to scene receiving good solid renders." with out some type of video tutorial explaining these ideas/concepts/etc.?