KRAY is behaving totally insane!

[jaxtone]

Here´s the scene I have been fighting with for a while now... I would be a lot happier if someone with more skills than me could take a look at it and see if there´s any salvation for it!

http://www.jackmcguinness.com/zippedhouse/housekray.zip

[erwin zwart]

after downloading I miss some copstone100 object, it is instanced in your scene a lot.
the LWS is set on raytrace and it renders fast here.
In what way does it behave totally insane? The render looks similar to what LW and FPrime make of it.

I got some of your errors fixed after looking further, you added all kray plugins as master plugin and unchecked them. It looks like the physky does not like that at all with your current setting of your sunlight. Delete all kray plugins that you unchecked.
Another thing, kray does not render the backdrop image set in compositing tab. Use a quad to get that.

[florian]

... this time will hopefully come in the future! But at this moment I don´t wanna start with weeks in an intensive "white paper reading session" to reach your level.

Well, you could have easily read the important parts of the manual and some tutorials in the 2 weeks you fought with this scene. Kray is a complex an powerfull render engine and you need some time to get really good results (same is true for LW BTW). You can always use the presets and get good results pretty fast but you can't turn on every Kray feature and expect it to just work. Kray has to work around certain LW SDK limitations. Those are listed in the manual. The basic concept is also in the manual and it is not a long read. It is very important to understand it to properly use Kray.

If you wan't plug and play rendering, you should use FPrime.

[jaxtone]

Sorry for the missing stone... I attach it!

But do you mean that it´s a proper and ultimate Kray setup in the scene I have made? Strange becuase I don´t feel it´s close to what I have seen that Kray can accomplish!

About the "Totally Insane" subject the problems that occure is mostly the same as anyone else have announced in this thread we now are reading!

There´s also another thread on the same subject:
http://www.kraytracing.com/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=1737

after downloading I miss some copstone100 object, it is instanced in your scene a lot.
the LWS is set on raytrace and it renders fast here.
In what way does it behave totally insane? The render looks similar to what LW and FPrime make of it.

[jaxtone]

Florian!

From where did you get that I haven´t read the manual, (which I consider to be very unlogical and focused on a technical and complex agenda instead of the opposite?) The question you would ask is why I am not up and running after two weeks with this scene! (Maybe, and I just say maybe, it has got something to do with the format!) You could as well judge me for being an ignorant and in someway we all are from time to time but in general? Not me!

Why do you chose to talk to me as a kid when I have revealed my lack of knowledge in this subject, and also told anyone in public that "I don´t prefer "white papers". Do you really believe that it would make a change if you try to repeat what I just said I disliked? I fully understand that if someone wan´t to be professional in any software the very same person gotta dig deep into the soul of it. But what you DO NOT understand it that if something is experienced as complicated and distorted it surely can be developed into something more pedagogical if the author understand the benefit of it. Reference: "The more the merrier"!

My work agenda is quite full and I neither have time or interest in spending hours, days or weeks in anything that doesn´t peak upwards. I am sorry if I interrupted your vision of a traditional way of learning but I just see it as very old fashioned and uninteresting.

P.S. I ain´t gonna answer why I am not using FPrime in this case because then we probably will never see the end of this thread. Keep focus on the subject please!

... this time will hopefully come in the future! But at this moment I don´t wanna start with weeks in an intensive "white paper reading session" to reach your level.

Well, you could have easily read the important parts of the manual and some tutorials in the 2 weeks you fought with this scene. Kray is a complex an powerfull render engine and you need some time to get really good results (same is true for LW BTW). You can always use the presets and get good results pretty fast but you can't turn on every Kray feature and expect it to just work. Kray has to work around certain LW SDK limitations. Those are listed in the manual. The basic concept is also in the manual and it is not a long read. It is very important to understand it to properly use Kray.

If you wan't plug and play rendering, you should use FPrime.

[erwin zwart]

this is just a technical test of your scene, please try this LWS overthere.

[jaxtone]

Hi Erwin!

Thanks for the tech test of the scene. I downloaded and rendered it on my PC and it took about 53 seconds. (What did it take on your machine?) I felt that the shadows and light that attached to the surfaces looked smoother and much better in your scene but since I experienced the sun´s light as too bright so I went into "Physical Sky" to see if I could make some changes there, (maybe this is the wrong place but since you set the sun´s value to "zero" I took a chance. I reduced the gamma from "2" to "1.5" just to see whats happend. Shouldn´t have done that becuase the render process was frozen and Lightwave crashed. Are Kray´s settings very sensitive in general or may this have something to do with earlier problems with the "Physical Sky" in RC5, as mentioned by Matt?

MattGorner:
Are you guys using Physical Sky on the scenes you're having issues with? I just found a nasty bug in it, it's losing any decimals on Turbidity / Exposure on save and reload. I've fixed the script and sent it back to the dev team. I wonder if there are other settings that might have this 'displayed as real numbers in the UI, loaded from scene file as Integers' bug. On noticeable when you have numbers with decimal points in them. I'm off to check!

Edit: Yep, a few others in the PhySky plugin needed sorting. The other plugins seem to be okay.
http://www.kraytracing.com/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=1735

this is just a technical test of your scene, please try this LWS overthere.

EZtest1.png

[erwin zwart]

I am uploading this scene plus objects (no Images dir) to my webspace now: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ezcc2/kray/jaxtone.zip
I saw you used luminosity and specular on surfaces, I set those to 0%.
physky does not crash here by setting turbidity from 2 to 1.5, the sky turns black though. I think this (brandnew) lscript will get some input restrictions, so use 2.0 to 8.0 for now.

[jaxtone]

Oops! I think I did something very stupid here. Since the illumination in the scene where too bright and it still were many differences between some surfaces that supposed to be similar I thought it would help if I changed most settings for these surfaces in scene... damn this was not the best to do if the proper work schedule is to set Luminosity and Specularity to zero.

I notice that the image you´ve attached doesn´t contain any of that discusting "beige" color that I have received on the walls. I am glad to see that becuase I have tried to get rid of it by decrease the ground colors intensity since I thought that the walls were illuminated by it which is most probably the wrong way to solve this. Looking forward to see what good comes out of your efforts.

I´ll attach a test render with a totally uninteresting cube just to test the windows reflections.

Thanks!



[quote="Erwin Zwart"]I am uploading this scene plus objects (no Images dir) to my webspace now and will add link here soon. I saw you used luminosity and specular on surfaces, I set those to 0%. physky does not crash here by setting turbidity from 2 to 1.5, the sky turns black though. I think this (brandnew) lscript will get some input restrictions, so use 2.0 to 8.0 for now.

[mattgorner]

Setting Turbity to 1.5 will get changed to 1.0 on reload of the scene, this is a bug in the LScript, I've fixed it and passed it back to Jure.

[khan973_forum]

Matt, while you're fixing stuff, why don't you fix some CORE things

[jaxtone]

Brilliant!

Matt, while you're fixing stuff, why don't you fix some CORE things

[jaxtone]

Hi Erwin!

I looked at the scenes now and I have questions of the attached image you have named as "EZtest2.png"! Please see attached image!

I rendered out one image for each scene file you attached! Please see attached images!

I am uploading this scene plus objects (no Images dir) to my webspace now: http://www.xs4all.nl/~ezcc2/kray/jaxtone.zip
I saw you used luminosity and specular on surfaces, I set those to 0%.
physky does not crash here by setting turbidity from 2 to 1.5, the sky turns black though. I think this (brandnew) lscript will get some input restrictions, so use 2.0 to 8.0 for now.

The attachment EZtest2.png is no longer available

[jaxtone]

I wonder one thing!

I haven´t changed the settings in "Turbidity" at all but after I save a scene and close Lightwave an open it again "Exposure" is set to "Zero"! Is this strange behavior also connected to the bug information you sent to Jure?

Setting Turbity to 1.5 will get changed to 1.0 on reload of the scene, this is a bug in the LScript, I've fixed it and passed it back to Jure.

[erwin zwart]

Hi Erwin!

I looked at the scenes now and I have questions of the attached image you have named as "EZtest2.png"! Please see attached image!

I rendered out one image for each scene file you attached! Please see attached images!

the final picture I showed was ofcourse the v004.lws scene. I guess you did not overwrite your own faulty objects with my corrected ones, in your render of my scene 04, your surfaces still give light.
Also, when I load that scene back the exposure of physical sky is the same as when I saved it. If that does not happens overthere, your install must be incorrect.
I noticed in your screenshot, the Kray Tonemap Blending master plugin is gone and you have Lscript Commander in there. How did that get there?
Did you install the .lsc files of the supplied kray RC5 zip? Did you delete all old .ls files in the plugin directories that LW autoscans every time it starts?

About your question inside the picture (btw I prefer stuff typed in post to be able to quote and comment on it in my reply), I just picked a time of physical sky and I did like it. I disabled your sun, because it was placed just above the horizon. I also did delete your fake fill light. The comment of the overbright material is simple, I did not change your material settings, that is your job Your original scene looked horrible in LW and FPrime too.
Turn color down a bit. About reflections, add a nicer environment to reflect or else the glass never will look better.

Because I had to check your claim of the exposure on 0, I did load the scene, changed the time and rendered again, see attached v005 LWS and rendered result.
Forget about the older LWS's, they used your wrong surfacing and were just little tests to see what was wrong in your original scene.
Now it is time to work on your scene and worry less about kray.

same scene with physical sky set on earlier dawn time in the summer