Simple room K3RC5

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Janusz Biela
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Simple room K3RC5

Postby Janusz Biela » Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:49 pm

From Corona render.

K3_.png

K3_00001.png

room_Corona.7z
(31.32 MiB) Downloaded 102 times


Of course without any features yet in K3.

cruisermori
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby cruisermori » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:53 pm

Good scene for testing. Thanks.
KRay 2.62
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby Janusz Biela » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:51 am

Nice test!
- Final Gathering - blleeeee
- noise on the floor - ufff
- too much raytracing feeling - hmmm
- propably FSAA G3 :evil:


...but K2 still rocks :mrgreen:

cruisermori
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby cruisermori » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:56 am

Thank you for your feedback Janusz. I know there are areas for improvement. With KRay 3 it will be easier to do.
The most important is what customer think about the render. Most of them like the version I posted.
And also render time on my 4 core xenon is acceptable.
I will work on the AA and noice reduction on the floor.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby Janusz Biela » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:30 pm

cruisermori wrote:Thank you for your feedback Janusz. I know there are areas for improvement. With KRay 3 it will be easier to do.
The most important is what customer think about the render. Most of them like the version I posted.
And also render time on my 4 core xenon is acceptable.
I will work on the AA and noice reduction on the floor.

Of course it is acceptable!
Most of the time clients are very content - only we want or we see it can be better. Most great renders on web are not commercial.
Very often in commercial field design is average and death line too short...clients are content we ARE NOT.

We need tool (K3) which will reduce our "anger" with all features.
G. finished Core (missing VCM) with Edge Coding and we go now to next phase

brownie
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby brownie » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:39 am

Dear Janusz,

While we are all expecting the very final release of Kray3, you could maybe give us some updated settings for Kray2 based on this scene.
It would be a good starting point for future evaluation and comparison too.

Thank you for all, can't wait to get K3 at work !

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby Janusz Biela » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:50 pm

brownie wrote:Dear Janusz,

While we are all expecting the very final release of Kray3, you could maybe give us some updated settings for Kray2 based on this scene.
It would be a good starting point for future evaluation and comparison too.

Thank you for all, can't wait to get K3 at work !

I was thinking to create settings for this scene in K2. Soon will upload.
I do not have all data to answer when K3 is ready. We are now around 60-80% of whole product. Sorry for spread but in 3D department always is something to do. Important is that the Core is finished!!! ...3 years of developing, million hours sacrificed for testing (I am alone with testing. ..which doesn't means is slow, sometimes I need seconds to see what is wrong! or what G. MUST improve )

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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby Parsons » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:20 pm

I just thought I would throw this out here. It was rendered on an old i7-920 and took 31 minutes in LW2018 native. I must say I'm impressed and it is available now. :D I'm still planning on getting K3 when it ships, but the new LW system is pretty impressive - minus the fireflies of course and some splotchies here and there
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:27 pm

Parsons wrote:I just thought I would throw this out here. It was rendered on an old i7-920 and took 31 minutes in LW2018 native. I must say I'm impressed and it is available now. :D I'm still planning on getting K3 when it ships, but the new LW system is pretty impressive - minus the fireflies of course and some splotchies here and there

Great job!
I have to make some comments.

1. Final Gathering in LW ...we do not use this right now - let say this is "old standard" system renders.
Renders from Kray are done with Brute Force sampling.
2. 100% I am sure you used maximum 5-7 bounce light. In Kray optimum is 40 bounce because this is very close to realistic behavior of our real global illumination. Scene must be fill up with photons - that`s why we have alert in command line when K3 tell us: not enough photons.

3. By using QMC sampling in LW (MonteCarlo) you can simply go to sleep and wake up next 2-3 days - simply impossible.

4. If we will use FG in K3 (right now we are before developing new engine for FG - necessary for animation) render time will be 4-8 times faster....so under 60sec on Dual Xeon.

Anyway Newtek try do something and with these small steps always they make progress. ...but this is not enough, because army of coders can not compete with one genius.

So we release K3 for LW2018 - curious about new lights and LW shader system in K3!

Parsons
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby Parsons » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:26 pm

Janusz Biela wrote:Great job!
I have to make some comments.

1. Final Gathering in LW ...we do not use this right now - let say this is "old standard" system renders.
Renders from Kray are done with Brute Force sampling.
2. 100% I am sure you used maximum 5-7 bounce light. In Kray optimum is 40 bounce because this is very close to realistic behavior of our real global illumination. Scene must be fill up with photons - that`s why we have alert in command line when K3 tell us: not enough photons.

3. By using QMC sampling in LW (MonteCarlo) you can simply go to sleep and wake up next 2-3 days - simply impossible.

4. If we will use FG in K3 (right now we are before developing new engine for FG - necessary for animation) render time will be 4-8 times faster....so under 60sec on Dual Xeon.

Anyway Newtek try do something and with these small steps always they make progress. ...but this is not enough, because army of coders can not compete with one genius.

So we release K3 for LW2018 - curious about new lights and LW shader system in K3!


I'm working on something else right now so I can't give you the particulars except to say that I did nothing to the GI settings - what was loaded with the scene file is what I went with. :) But there this no Final Gathering in the new LW- so of course it wasn't used. I think the way the scene came in it was Brute Force with Interpolated enabled. I'll check later. I did use two Portal lights in the windows and one big area light in the ceiling and a large fill area light as well. So yes - its not 100% GI from the two windows and lamp light. I also converted the materials to BSDF and disconnected all the crazy node networks with the exception of the color. No more crazy nodes needed with LW2018. I'm excited to see how K3 pans out and works with LW2018 shading system as I have fell in love with it. :) So easy to create great looking materials.

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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby ideart » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:27 am

Janusz Biela wrote:...
Anyway Newtek try do something and with these small steps always they make progress. ...but this is not enough, because army of coders can not compete with one genius.
...


I don't know about armies of coders and geniuses but when I look at the facts I see that Newtek has released a new renderer and Kray on the other hand is still under development 6 years after your first "soon" on the forums. Still no release date, still no shaders, still no animation and only very simple scenes to show on the forum. So how many more years of genius development until Kray can do what other renderers are doing for years?
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the3dcie
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby the3dcie » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:24 pm

ideart wrote:
Janusz Biela wrote:...
Anyway Newtek try do something and with these small steps always they make progress. ...but this is not enough, because army of coders can not compete with one genius.
...


I don't know about armies of coders and geniuses but when I look at the facts I see that Newtek has released a new renderer and Kray on the other hand is still under development 6 years after your first "soon" on the forums. Still no release date, still no shaders, still no animation and only very simple scenes to show on the forum. So how many more years of genius development until Kray can do what other renderers are doing for years?

To be fair, just try Kray 3 RC5 and see how impressive and FAST the render engine is already, even if not "final".

But I have to agree Kray 3 is taking too long to finally be released, let's hope it gets complete one day or the other, and in the meantime you can already do renders with RC5 that you can't imagine doing, even in LW 2018 as it stands now, without waiting for the earth and the whole solar system to collapse...

ideart
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby ideart » Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:50 pm

the3dcie wrote:To be fair, just try Kray 3 RC5 and see how impressive and FAST the render engine is already, even if not "final".

But I have to agree Kray 3 is taking too long to finally be released, let's hope it gets complete one day or the other, and in the meantime you can already do renders with RC5 that you can't imagine doing, even in LW 2018 as it stands now, without waiting for the earth and the whole solar system to collapse...


My current needs are not a buggy faster K2 renderer for doing stills.
I need bug-less animation solution , I need shaders, I need proper antiallising, I need to use bump on my surfaces without flickering noise.
No need to wait for any kind of collapse when there are other solutions in the market.
My only regret is that I was fooled by the frequent "soon" posts during the past 6 years and I stayed with Lightwave for longer that I should have.
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the3dcie
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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby the3dcie » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:53 pm

ideart wrote:My current needs are not a buggy faster K2 renderer for doing stills.
I need bug-less animation solution , I need shaders, I need proper antiallising, I need to use bump on my surfaces without flickering noise.
No need to wait for any kind of collapse when there are other solutions in the market.
My only regret is that I was fooled by the frequent "soon" posts during the past 6 years and I stayed with Lightwave for longer that I should have.

Perfectly understandable, I agree the wait is far too long and Janusz's posts (although he can only do with he is given, and he's kind enough to try to reply as soon and often as he can!) look more like a repeated joke than anything, given the time he has been saying "soon"! :mrgreen: :roll:

I can only hope you've found another, reliable, solution for your needs?

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Re: Simple room K3RC5

Postby ZodiaQ » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:36 pm

I don't want to stir this up but I have been thinking this many times over the past years.
I can remember very well the first messages about new K3 thinking and hoping that it would happen soon, as even at that moment we were running behind Vray etc. Now many years later we have K3 and it still seems promising but often I do think myself as a romantic, just hoping it will happen one day and it will be spectacular but at the same time asking myself 'are they just trying to hold us on a string' with few posts every now and than with indeed not that spectacular stuff. And a version is still not commercially usable.
I'm pretty sure if I would be running a professional VIZ company I would have made the switch years ago.
If I then think about fprime being released back in the days, that more or less came out of the blue, but was so spectactular that it still sends shivers down my spine thinking about the moment I first tried it.


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