K3 RC7

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Janusz Biela
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Janusz Biela » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:08 am

AVLKray wrote:October 2 years since offically started developing kray 3?
What has been done the years before? Was that some other Kray 3?
I can pull up some random forum post
Juli 2014 :
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4453&p=20845&hilit=last+beta#p20845
And what about the videos on your own youtube channel ? :
VPR Kray 3.0 Path Tracing : 4 years ago
Kray 3.0 + VPR + Physky2 : 3 years ago
So Kray 3 hadn't been started at that time? Such a statement makes me even more believe it is all about trying to prevent us from switching to other software knowing it will take a long time to release.
I know G is coding alone and has had some serious problems with his child and i understand. But it should be clear to users what they can except how long it will take.
Anyway I must admit I have only little hope left.
Official release beta K3 was 2 years ago. As you know you can not start beta having nothing...of course it was 1-2 years codding before to have something like base for start.

No idea why you have "little hope left" it sounds like women whining syndrome (no offense :D )
Everything goes according plan:
- OB1-OBX
- RC1-RC7
- K3
- K3.1 (with new feature: shader system, VPR, real time tone map)

Asticles
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Asticles » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:18 am

He is not the only one that has lost almost all hope about that.
Also, about only being one developer, it is important and a risk factor.

And please, there are some customers expressing their opinions, it's not necessary to shout, do you think so? Edit: or being disrespectful

Regards.

thomas
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by thomas » Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Let's keep the forum pleasant and respectful, and let's not lose ourselves in discussions over timing, please. These are only details.

Every single one of us, Gregor and Janusz included, only wants K3 to be released as soon as possible. The only path is waiting, and coding.

ZodiaQ
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by ZodiaQ » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:27 pm

So development started maybe 4-5 years ago, doesn't matter if there is beta or not imo

I can tell why I have little hope left. The OB's took over a year, the RC's took over a year, who knows how many RC sub versions or K3 almost final versions before we have something to actually work with.
I am getting tired and frustrated of seeing all these video's and pictures about how cool fast en spectacular Kray3 is going to be without it ever seeing finished.
Fact for me is that I kept having the impression al those years K3 would be near. I think if someone would have told me 5 years ago that Kray3 wouldn't be ready by nearly end 2018 I maybe would have invested more time into another renderer. Now I keep having the feeling we are falling far behind.
Not knowing when it hits the market what else will be out there.
And ofcourse that is my own fault, I could have done something for example switch to another renderer, which I think many did along the way.
Another fact is switching to another workstation, for some years now I am holding off as I know many other renderers are GPU based. I can't afford to let my boss buy me a CPU monster to tell him after half a year that I need a GPU monster because Kray is not nearly finished.

And respect? I don't think I am being disrespectfull, this is nothing personal, I am just expressing what I feel and have been feeling over the past years.
I could have wrote this many times in the past but didn't. Especially the 'one man' approach has bothered me, the longer it takes the more frustrating it gets to know if something happens to G we all have been waiting for nothing.
Last edited by ZodiaQ on Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexis
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Alexis » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:14 pm

Hello everyone, we must still accept the comments of users.
It is true that every time an exit is planned for "next week" we must wait 1 or 2 months.

We must not forget also that we paid to become "beta tester" thinking to have a definitive version quickly.

Another point in my case, no version of K3rc4-5-6 works with big outdoor scenes and evermotion objects. Always crash without knowing why and impossible to transmit (> 1.5GB). No problem with K2 other than the rendering time, and the lightwave engine.

You never see a test with a lot of different trees, bushes and herbs in 10,000 or 500,000 instances. Always small indoor scenes or quality details.

Maybe there will be soon a version with an automotic "bug tracker" by mail?

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vgabex
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by vgabex » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:33 pm

There are some things that bother me.

The biggest one:

12-06-2018 - I reported the "Crash when UV map in luminescence channel" bug
14-06-2018 - Janusz reported that the bug is fixed.

You say bug fixing was fast, only 2 days?
No!
40 days passed after fixing the bug, and today the beta tester users have the same buggy version....

Simply can't understand and accept why we are not getting immediately the fixed versions of K3????

ZodiaQ
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by ZodiaQ » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:00 pm

Alexis wrote: ...
We must not forget also that we paid to become "beta tester" thinking to have a definitive version quickly.
...
Sadest part is we have virtually nothing to test with. The 'one click' interface is still to come. And I wasn't able to get any further with K3 than loading the test scenes, hit render and watch well ..... something render.

artattak
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by artattak » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:26 pm

Gentlemen K3 can do it.
For about a month, he has been rendering in K3 and I am getting renders of this quality.
After adding dedicated shaders, the quality and speed of the K3 renders is at the forefront. Right next to CORONA.
K3 is extremely fast, most renderings are calculated in 10 minutes in 3000 px
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Janusz Biela
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Janusz Biela » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:50 am

K3 is non stop developing even if bugs are not fixed in long time. Bug fixing is not only one measurement, also is what we do not see (optimization, adding base codes for features, etc)
This is no art to add something like shader system which suck with speed and drop this for "happy" people which will be very soon unhappy...

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Keraressi Abdelkarim
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Keraressi Abdelkarim » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:07 pm

vgabex wrote:There are some things that bother me.

The biggest one:

12-06-2018 - I reported the "Crash when UV map in luminescence channel" bug
14-06-2018 - Janusz reported that the bug is fixed.

You say bug fixing was fast, only 2 days?
No!
40 days passed after fixing the bug, and today the beta tester users have the same buggy version....

Simply can't understand and accept why we are not getting immediately the fixed versions of K3????

hey what i notice from thos updates . is when bug reported and he wrote fix i think he is fixed on primary version in G. version wich will be finale version . he work like i think because i notice this from k2 and updates . also in k3 . so mybe in last rc7 u will found it fixed . he will not give small bug fix as update he need to fix manythings because everything is optimized to get speed and qualty .

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Keraressi Abdelkarim
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Keraressi Abdelkarim » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:13 pm

AVLKray wrote:So development started maybe 4-5 years ago, doesn't matter if there is beta or not imo

I can tell why I have little hope left. The OB's took over a year, the RC's took over a year, who knows how many RC sub versions or K3 almost final versions before we have something to actually work with.
I am getting tired and frustrated of seeing all these video's and pictures about how cool fast en spectacular Kray3 is going to be without it ever seeing finished.
Fact for me is that I kept having the impression al those years K3 would be near. I think if someone would have told me 5 years ago that Kray3 wouldn't be ready by nearly end 2018 I maybe would have invested more time into another renderer. Now I keep having the feeling we are falling far behind.
Not knowing when it hits the market what else will be out there.
And ofcourse that is my own fault, I could have done something for example switch to another renderer, which I think many did along the way.
Another fact is switching to another workstation, for some years now I am holding off as I know many other renderers are GPU based. I can't afford to let my boss buy me a CPU monster to tell him after half a year that I need a GPU monster because Kray is not nearly finished.

And respect? I don't think I am being disrespectfull, this is nothing personal, I am just expressing what I feel and have been feeling over the past years.
I could have wrote this many times in the past but didn't. Especially the 'one man' approach has bothered me, the longer it takes the more frustrating it gets to know if something happens to G we all have been waiting for nothing.



bro in just last year . G found new system to optimise memory 2 or 3 times he implanmented new algorythme . and everyone knew also in newtek dev that G. he is crazy in his cutting edge codes . just try new lw2018 and use k3 qmc And watch :D .


we got in thos 2 last years we got some new system it will give us best fresh update wich G. has in his brain ^^ . better to have k3 like 2 years ago and we have something slow or not good . take time and do something extra rare this is my point view.

also we have ppm system and we have manythings great! soo we just need to wait a bit and you will do render with 2 click no boder head ex.....

i was looking many video about vray rt+cpu i said well . k3 with cpu only bait thos cpu+vray rt. soo think when we got CPU+GPU in k3 ^^ :D no coment

ZodiaQ
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by ZodiaQ » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:01 am

lightwave3d wrote:
AVLKray wrote:
bro in just last year . G found new system to optimise memory 2 or 3 times he implanmented new algorythme . and everyone knew also in newtek dev that G. he is crazy in his cutting edge codes . just try new lw2018 and use k3 qmc And watch :D .


we got in thos 2 last years we got some new system it will give us best fresh update wich G. has in his brain ^^ . better to have k3 like 2 years ago and we have something slow or not good . take time and do something extra rare this is my point view.

also we have ppm system and we have manythings great! soo we just need to wait a bit and you will do render with 2 click no boder head ex.....

i was looking many video about vray rt+cpu i said well . k3 with cpu only bait thos cpu+vray rt. soo think when we got CPU+GPU in k3 ^^ :D no coment
To begin with we don't have €10.000 to spend on rendering machines as it is only a side product here.
Second we have LW 11.6.3 (as is there is NO reason whatsoever for us to switch to newer LW (yet))
Use K3? It's a crippled version still, at least for me, most important part (for me) the one click interface without the 1001 settings and easier materials (shaders) are still not here.
And Artattak he is a freaking genuis, haven't seen anyone reaching those results.
It would be good if we have had a clear timeline with milestones not just 'soon'.
Who says the shader system, post process or other stuff won't take another 2 years?
You say K3 coding took only a year because we lost a lot of time on unforseen things, well this time counts for us to wait as well and these unforseen things can happen in the future also and because announcements have been delayed over and over again it's very hard to keep being optimistic.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Janusz Biela » Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:30 pm

There right now only one person who is codding and one person who is beta tester (me). When I asked for help I got 10-15 beta testers list ready to help ...
Apparently I am alone still - sometimes I get help from Artur, Waldemar and Abdelkarim (thanks!). Only by myself I posted over 200 bugs.
G. can fix 10 bugs high priority/ 1-4 hours - if there are not important bugs he shift his power to Core and other software (PRO100 and Podium) or writing features.


I know posting bugs requires huge knowledge - is really really difficult. Scene must be stripped (very synthetic) , 100% proof and according to subject with procedures. I stick with Kray over 12 years and for me rendering is like drinking water every morning but little help would be very appreciated.
G. does what is in his power I do what is in my power sacrifice my free evenings to fill up bug tracker or writing hundreds mails to G.

All "attacking" discussion above has no sense.

Parsons
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by Parsons » Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:45 am

AVLKray wrote:Second we have LW 11.6.3 (as is there is NO reason whatsoever for us to switch to newer LW (yet))
Ok that looks like your first problem. :) LW2018 rendering is very very good and is worth getting a handle on. In the long run I don't think it will compete with K3 especially seeing how it's future is up in the air since the departure of Mark Granger. But Antti did a great job on the shading system and maybe he can fill-in for Mark and improve upon what he started. To be perfectly honest I am not a Kray2 user and have only dabbled with the demo, but I am excited about K3 and it's potential but will not buy without first test driving it. And unless it has an IPR (VPR) I won't be interested as I am an artist and not a mathematician or physics scientist so I need a an IPR. :) The wait for 2018 was worth it so I'm betting the wait for K3 will be the same.

pandras81
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Re: K3 RC7

Post by pandras81 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:34 pm

I have to agree with everybody who has some concerns about the developement of kray 3. I understand there are reasons why it's so slow, still agree on that it should have been communicated better. We still dont know when it will be a full release. What bugs me, is after RC7 you are releasing "full" Kray 3.0, but you also state that the most important next step is stage 3: Kray 3.1... So my question is why doesn't Kray 3.0 contain what 3.1 will? I understand it's time to code it, but after 3.0 we still have to wait for 3.1. It seems, that Kray 3.0 is just another RC and a lot of important features are moved to 3.1. And please tell us exactly when will Kray 3.1 be ready?

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