vertex connection and merging

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Janusz Biela
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vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:35 pm

G. send me letter about update K3 engine with new algorithm "vertex connection and merging" . It`s gives more accuracy than Path Tracing and less calculations (less noise). I do not know details yet but as I know G. this will be in OB5 or K3.1.
Here information:
http://www.smallvcm.com/reports/60sec/

"Vertex connection and merging" (VCM) is on the right/bottom of bigger images when you hover mouse over.
Our K3OB4 with progressive Photon Mapping (PPM) is on the left/top.

Over this new render algorithm (VCM) G. wants build new GI engine.
I hope, soon I can test it in next updates!

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khan973
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby khan973 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:04 pm

Does it mean we will have the choice in the advanced parameters ?

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:11 pm

All will be available in advanced parameters.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:23 pm

Got information from G.:
I work now on new features in GI Core, prototype is working now and it needs integrate into the K3 Core.

...I think he wants release it in OB4 - why we have delay with updates.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:26 pm

Here extra info about this function:
http://iliyan.com/publications/VertexMerging

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promity
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby promity » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:48 am

Great features. But - Does it take an additional 5 years? :shock:

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:23 am

Ha ha ... actually is ready (we do not need wait months like in other software). Propably I will test it today evening (I travel now).
G. sents me yeastarday next update of K3OB4 with next functions of VCM. System is not yet in GUI but I can run it from command. When G. will back (probably heart check condition of his child in clinic) will be update. We go slowly to "fusion" of unbiased and biased system becouse this is future of renderings 3D.

mdharrington
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby mdharrington » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:19 am

Very interesting....

I understand Vray has this already, and it is getting very popular for volumetric renders...renderman also has a VCM/PT hybrid implementation just integrated (used on finding Dory)

it seems to be the way of the future for CPU rendering right now

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:16 am

Yes. The future is consolidation unbiased and biased system renders. This will gives boost for CPU. This is perfect system for hybrid mode system (CPU with GPU). First seconds/minutes are done by interpolation and slowly during rendering balance is changed to brute force.

We can not compare V-ray to Kray: different market scale and budget :wink:

mdharrington
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby mdharrington » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:10 pm

Not trying to compare them :)

But the fact that Kray is switching to more cutting edge advanced algorithms is a good sign for Kray

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:40 pm

Yes. I think this is only one way now. Having very good engine render we can make faster working shaders and other things (rich real time post processing, multi-light, etc). Vertex Merging will give us much less calculation, faster response in K3VPR, Path Tracing accuracy in minutes, sampling GI will much less noise:
PPM:
PPM.png


VCM:
VCM.png



I had problems with links from this page (space bar in url) why I uploaded images.

mdharrington
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby mdharrington » Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:55 pm

VCM pathtracers actually can become unbiased over time....

Basically it is interpolated path tracing, a path is calculated, and a nearby vertex copies a similar path even though it was never calculated, so instead of blurring GI samples like interpolated, other samples are faked. The amount of bias, is the radius of the faked samples.

The radius of the vertex connection can be reduced over time so that towards the end of the render the incoming samples are unbiased, and since all pixels are samples....the result would be completely unbiased given enough time.

This has the effect of smoothing PT noise on the initial samples, and then becoming more accurate as time goes on.

Not sure how G is going to implement but VCM by itself is a biased pathtracer(that can become unbiased over time) but is easily calculated on the GPU

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:31 pm

Yes this is PT calculation because interpolation is only between bounces from camera and light sources - is special system to average data between photons which are not met. It needs less calculations then pure Path Tracing and produce much less noise in reflection/refraction/blur regions. So we will have both: PPM and VCM.
PPM will have soon new sampling FG - we test it now.
VCM will be also soon. G. must consolidate code in K3 core.
So for those who has strong CPU machines best choice will be VCM (brute force).

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Janusz Biela
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Re: vertex connection and merging

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:20 pm

Here I found better examples about VCM:
http://www.iliyan.com/publications/Vert ... omparison/


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