Interior

artattak
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Interior

Post by artattak »

There is nothing to say.
Just KRAY 3
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komoda_kongsberg_czarna_B_PS_HD.jpg
Alexis
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Re: Interior

Post by Alexis »

Hello, nice picture :wink:

For Dof you use basic depth map with photoshop or plug-in ?

Thank's
artattak
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Re: Interior

Post by artattak »

Alexis wrote:Hello, nice picture :wink:

For Dof you use basic depth map with photoshop or plug-in ?

Thank's
Z-bufor i AE
ideart
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Re: Interior

Post by ideart »

Isn't this quality already achievable with K2 ?
What is the visual advantage of K3 in this render?

By the way I really like your renders but I think that Kray is holding you back.
Sure it renders fast stills of plaster walls interiors but we are in 2018 and you can't render dozens of basic materials that would make your renders even better.
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artattak
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Re: Interior

Post by artattak »

ideart wrote:Isn't this quality already achievable with K2 ?
What is the visual advantage of K3 in this render?

By the way I really like your renders but I think that Kray is holding you back.
Sure it renders fast stills of plaster walls interiors but we are in 2018 and you can't render dozens of basic materials that would make your renders even better.

The quality that K3 offers is really incomparable.
Tródno to describe it but everything is better.
Bump maping, reflection quality, amazing tranzlucency which is extremely fast, very efficient instances faster by several hundred percent than K2, hundreds of thousands of instances practically does not affect the render time. amazing devotion effect lumi lumi panel that behave like physical lights, give beautiful colors and clean glow.
Generally in K3 everything goes out and looks like it has no effort, which you had to put in renders with K2.

Now he buys the object assigns maps and everything goes out as it should.

As for advanced surfaces, you're right there are a lot of restrictions.
We have an extremely fast SSS shader basically not affecting the time of rendering in the way of a few detective shaders. metal, anistropy, velvet and oren nayar and glass.
I can skillfully mix these parameters with unlimited possibilities in giving materials and surfaces.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Interior

Post by Janusz Biela »

ideart wrote:Isn't this quality already achievable with K2 ?
What is the visual advantage of K3 in this render?
There are difference between K2 and K3:
- completely new code: modular build, easy to find bug, very clean code, edge code, the newest implementation of C++, easy to add features
- No fake Photon mapping (!) we have pure and real bounce lights according to physics
- K3VPR which will be default render window in future
- new memory management
- support for the newest Intel/AMD CPU also Dual
- standalone version (only Subpatches, Nodes and Instances are not supported) no need Lightwave to render.
- New Photon Map engine with PPM (Progressive Photon Mapping)
- new QMC sampling engine
- the newest Physical Sky available now form new University researches
- optimization for photons background sampling
- ultra fast (around 10-20 times than K2) Photon Map solution
- ultra fast reflection/refraction blur
- new Engine LEM lights which behave like Area Lights (!)
- new Engine Physical Lights
- Turbo Start System
- store in GI in RAM
- store geometry in RAM without reloading
- new follow Layout octree system - Kray follow only changes - no need reload whole scene!
- identical flags for Unseen system like in Lightwave
- disable Instances from Layout (general ON/OFF button soon)
- Real Trace Direct Light Reflection - you will see reflection of Sun and Physical Lights and you can blur them according to physics
- control Physical Sun Lights from Layout
- full control of Physical Light saturate and de-saturate separate Sun and Sky
- etc


You can be close with quality in K2 but it will take around 5-20 times longer time render or never, generally you will never get that quality of K3 because of new Photon Mapping solution which give more realistic light.

ideart wrote:By the way I really like your renders but I think that Kray is holding you back.
Sure it renders fast stills of plaster walls interiors but we are in 2018 and you can't render dozens of basic materials that would make your renders even better.
Still we are on stage two it means RC7 as last version RC. After that we release Full K3.0.
Stage three (the most important) K3.1 and so one:
- real time post process
- real time tone map
- real time rendering (VPR)
- K3 shader system (we have first ultra fast SSS)
- Network render trough K3 Nodes
- new buffers
...like you see the best in on front us.
ideart
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Re: Interior

Post by ideart »

All these informations are nice and someone who checks Kray forum knows about them, or at least that you have promised to implement them.

BUT what I asked was what is the visual advantage of K3 in this render over K2.
You said it yourself that with K2 you get really close (In my opinion you can get the same quality).
So you are saying that so far with K3 you only get a bit more quality renders than K2 is rendering for the past 10+ years but faster and easiest?
Sorry but I am not impressed.

Stage three could be in 2028 so I choose to ignore for now all those promises you wrote about it.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Interior

Post by Janusz Biela »

Is not about to being impressed.
I forgot mention one big thing: Is impossible for K2 push quality further. That`s why we start K3.
Now I know what you mean :)

Simple answer:
K2 is on the edge possibilities. That`s means if we add to K2 shader system (for example SSS, displacement, ani reflection, realistic glass, velvet, etc) you will never finish render...literally.
In K2 making real time post process and tone map is not possible.
Area Light and LEM solution in K2 is total bad (this is just simulation for LW) in K3 we have own build in Core.


You do not see so much differences because we did not start add features and is to early.
How you can do high quality images without shader system, real time tone map and post process?...IMPOSSIBLE.

So K2 by his Core limits ends his life as it is.
K3 start life where K2 ends :P


Do not stress yourself :D everything is under control and schedule.
ideart
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Re: Interior

Post by ideart »

Thank you for your concern by not any stress here since we decided to move on. I keep Kray for older projects that need rerendering when changes are required and for low paying jobs that need fast stills.

My only real complain is that if I had known that 2013 "soon" promises would translate to "sometime in the next 10 years" then I would have moved on sooner and be an expert today in a different software with modern renderer, huge communities and tones of tutorials.
Since I have mentioned tutorials I wonder what happened to Archviz training vol2?

Closing when someone mentions schedule then usually include and a time frame.
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artattak
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Re: Interior

Post by artattak »

K3 offers much better quality than K2.
Visualization is basically furnishing. Laying furniture and playing with light.

As for other programs, this is corona, C4D or 3dmax.
But.
Kray is an engine for LW and for LW users.
Changing the software is not an easy matter. All the scenes, the parts to which we are coming back, Learning new software, this minumum year to catch a similar level of work, which can be insufficient time.
Running a business is very important.
LW from kray is $ 1500. 3D max with corona is the cost of a new small car

Since you are here on the forum and not on the forum corony, you have a dilemma.

I am waiting for shreders dedicated to kray, I get the effect like in corona.
ideart
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Re: Interior

Post by ideart »

artattak wrote:K3 offers much better quality than K2.
Visualization is basically furnishing. Laying furniture and playing with light.

As for other programs, this is corona, C4D or 3dmax.
But.
Kray is an engine for LW and for LW users.
Changing the software is not an easy matter. All the scenes, the parts to which we are coming back, Learning new software, this minumum year to catch a similar level of work, which can be insufficient time.
Running a business is very important.
LW from kray is $ 1500. 3D max with corona is the cost of a new small car

Since you are here on the forum and not on the forum corony, you have a dilemma.

I am waiting for shreders dedicated to kray, I get the effect like in corona.
Yes that is my point.
Learning a new software takes time. So if someone told me in 2012-2013 that the next Kray version would be released after 10 years then I would have the time to decide if I would want to wait or if I would make a smooth transition to some other software.
But instead all we had was "soon" comments that left the impression that the next Kray was around the corner.
Kray is for LW and still in 2018 LW has an obsolete archviz renderer.
Yes LW+Kray is cheaper but if your customer wants renders with fur then what are you going to tell him/her? My cheap software can't render that?

Yes I am among the very few remaining members of this forum as I am member of few other forums. LW+Kray are tools and as I have mentioned I still find uses for them. I can't see a dilema, if I need great renders in 2018 I have to look elsewhere.

Investing your time in waiting is your prerogative.
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ZodiaQ
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Re: Interior

Post by ZodiaQ »

ideart wrote:
Closing when someone mentions schedule then usually include and a time frame.
Like you said even now as it looks we are close to K3 final then comes the next stage : shader system, real time tone map and post process. We still have no idea how many time that will take ...
Even statements like 'that is easy part' doesn't mean anything. Easier than the past 5 years?
I am afraid we will still see the same posts in 5 years.
And as more and more users switch to other software i am asking myself will be worth for G to invest all his time in a product that in the end will have only very few users left.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Interior

Post by Janusz Biela »

AVLKray wrote:.
And as more and more users switch to other software i am asking myself will be worth for G to invest all his time in a product that in the end will have only very few users left.
Where from how many users has G? :evil:
From my approximately calculations is around 10.000-30.000+ users
cruisermori
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Re: Interior

Post by cruisermori »

Janusz, I don't expect such a high number for the Lightwave/KRay users. You are talking about PRO100 users.
Please try to publish a realistic time plan just to know when KRay 3.1 will be released. There is no any interest to use the previous version(s) in the real production at least in our company.
We need a KRay version with all promised functions. Not to waste time to create materials, light models with the current version.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Interior

Post by Janusz Biela »

I talk LW+PRO100+Podium.
Last one has huge community.
Lightwave for G. is software where everything starts, all features.
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