Nodes parts (I)

qbaqbaKRAY
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby qbaqbaKRAY » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:32 am

Big!!! thank you Janusz

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Fri May 08, 2015 11:36 am

mmm still there is something I don't realy understand.
When using the (LW) fresnel node according to latest setup, how can we control amount of specular highlight?
changing refraction index only changes overall reflection.

appels using fake glossiness settings (i like this reflection and highlight):
appels_gloss.jpg
appels_gloss.jpg (80.08 KiB) Viewed 3241 times


using LW fresnel node from latest setup http://www.kraytracing.com/joomla/forum/index.php?f=39&t=4348&rb_v=viewtopic&start=15 refraction=3 (almost no, or at least too little reflection)
appels_node_refr3.jpg
appels_node_refr3.jpg (38.02 KiB) Viewed 3241 times


same but refraction index=5, too much overall reflection, appels start to look like plastic
appels_node_refr5.jpg
appels_node_refr5.jpg (76.92 KiB) Viewed 3241 times

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri May 08, 2015 12:39 pm

this is correct. You need:
- reflection map
- blur map
- correct Environment
- correct LEM (can be fake) for reflection

Also I will talk with G. about multiply reflection system in Kray Core. Now we can do it by Nodes but this is complicate. I do not use specular at all because gives artificially to renders but this need a lot skill because you simulate realistic behaviour of surfaces.

Please notice this information: in real world reflection is combination of Fresnel and blur level which comes from micro bump.
This effect (we talk about strong reflection, for example windows in interior reflected on the furnitures) comes from human eye tone map. You can not do it in 3D rendering...why was invented secularity to fake it - because you have separate control which is independent from reflection. In other word you can by secularity easy control "reflection" fake.

To do it physically correct you need strong visible light source, for example LEM light or HDRi map. The problem is that, this is still not enough and only one way is to RAISE up luminosity. This is dangerous for blur noise! So only one way is to multiply this effect by Nodes or use special code in Core which allow us by GUI control of this effect - this I will talk soon with G. because exist also option like shader.

It should be just basic option in GUI: multiply reflection with simple number: 1.0 default, 2.0 - twice stronger reflection. This is not only increase reflection level! That function MUST INCREASE strong reflection and not touch soft reflection.
This is similar with multiply in Photoshop. When you take image , clone it and put Multiply you will see effect. and this effect must be multiply twice or triple.

Here you can effect on the glass, chair legs, metal:

Multiply.jpg

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri May 08, 2015 12:40 pm

btw

post me here only these apples with textures.

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Fri May 08, 2015 1:24 pm

I mostly only do exteriors so LEM panels to create highlights aren't obvious.
The apples are placed on table outside in garden.
It's not real problem wether physical or fake, just needs to look good, but I was just wondering how to do this with only node system.

apples.zip
(1.26 MiB) Downloaded 183 times

thomas
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby thomas » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:28 pm

Amazing stuff Janusz. I'm going to read all of your posts about shading to get better, but trust me: my goal is to get you on board of our studio as our in-house genius render guru :)

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:58 pm

thanks. Many of information here are not actual (more specific: needs update).
Actually the way is to mix some basic Node system with new KrayShaders in future.
This Idea I want propose to G. to create KrayShader system which will contain the most important for users physical effects. This is not so much and of course we do not need whole physic laboratory in render because this has no sense...only confuse users.
The my idea is to add by one plugin KrayShader which will be attach to surface:
- Ani-Reflection
- realistic Glass
- fast translucency with colour transport
- fast SSS
- OrenNayar diffuse
- double reflection

these all are necessary and complete for all renders. Rest of effects will be done by basic Nodes: mixer, multiply, etc....very easy stuff.

thomas
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby thomas » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:23 pm

Hi Janusz,

Yep, that seems like a great implementation and good way forward. I'm working hard to study up on nodes at the moment. Thankfully I love mathematics and vectors (I am a game programmer in my spare time) so I seem to understand most of what's going on!


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