Nodes parts (I)

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:56 pm

Very useful! Already looking forward to the "I will explain later" sections :))

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:48 pm

In the basic material node setup I notice that often my materials reflect far to much, for example stone, brick or rooftile materials are reflecting way too much even when changing 'Index Of Refraction B' value to 1.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:16 pm

AVLKray wrote:In the basic material node setup I notice that often my materials reflect far to much, for example stone, brick or rooftile materials are reflecting way too much even when changing 'Index Of Refraction B' value to 1.



Then there is something wrong because value 1.0 means no reflection.
Please upload this surface.

BTW
I had occasion to use all these Nodes in big projects and many free tests (so I tested them very well) and soon I will upload fixed ultimate package. It is of course not package of surfaces - I remind this is just an IDEA which allow users develop all kind of surfaces in a few sec.

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:57 am

Thx. If I come across another misbehaving surface I will upload.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:03 am

AVLKray wrote:Thx. If I come across another misbehaving surface I will upload.



Yes please! but there is nothing to "complain". I use only mathematical operators - no shaders or complicate Nodes. It must works! :wink:

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:08 am

I am not complaining at all :)) just noticed that sometimes I can't seem to get reflection low enough.
But I will keep an eye on it, very busy now but if I find some time I will try to setup a example scene

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:39 am

Here a test scene.
refl-tst.zip
(1.15 MiB) Downloaded 96 times

3 renders show different values

1 Index of Refraction B 1.3 Reflection 100% -> obvious reflection
2 Index of Refraction B 1.0 Reflection 0% (or nodes disconnected) -> No reflection
3 Index of Refraction B 1.0 Reflection 100% -> Still some reflection

As you recommend only changing Index of Refraction B still seems to result in some (sometimes too much) reflection in bump areas?

1_refl-test-refl1300000.jpg

2_refl-test-norefl00000.jpg

3_refl-test00000.jpg
Last edited by ZodiaQ on Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:27 pm

I see problem. Will check this.

Fresnel 1.0 means no reflection.
Fresnel 1.4 means soft (plastic) reflection
etc
Between Fresnel 15 and 30 is almost no differences
between Fresnel 30 and 50 is almost no differences (buts still visible) You can check by Node picker tool.
Fresnel 50.0 means almost pure metal (check by picker probe reflection level in Nodes):
sc_017.png

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:41 pm

...I see problem with Kray and DP Kit.
Something is wrong with Kray. Will post this to G.
When I use Lightwave Fresnel then is ok. I will try find old version of Kray to check this also.

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Fri Jun 20, 2014 1:06 pm

Thx for checking.

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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Wed Jun 25, 2014 2:11 pm

Do you already know something about whats wrong with Kray and wether it can / will be fixed or any work arounds?

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:48 pm

Full concentration is on K3. K2 will be updated only if Newtek will release next Lightwave but even in this case not always, depends how big changes.

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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:25 pm

Here update with fresnel:

sc_001.png


In Result we get reflection map based on texture with fresnel effect (so same as before). The Color Tool has default setting (IMPORTANT!) and role of this Node is to see our reflection effect. Is very important not to tweak Color Tool in this place!
I will try update all surfaces Nodes from our base with that.

This basic fresnel Node comes from Lightwave and it works properly.
Thanks again for paying attention!

PS
This surface is BASE PLATFORM model for all surfaces so if you understand this one then you are with both legs in rich Nodes system :)...and this is the beginning of High Quality renders....




refl-tst.7z
(1.13 MiB) Downloaded 104 times

ZodiaQ
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby ZodiaQ » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:40 am

Great, thx for the update !!

edit :

Just one question, to make sure I understand correctly. Adjusting amount of reflection is done by changing fresnel value (refraction index)?. Reflection blurring based on texture by driving texture luma into surface Reflection blurring node?
Can we also in this setup control fresnel angle?

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:17 pm

Yes fresnel Index is reflection:
1.0 - no reflection
1.1 - walls
1.4 - 3.0 - wooden floors, plastic, ceramic, wood
3.0 - 5.0 low reflected metals (copper for example or another it must be that low to see colours of metal)
over 10 starts metal
50 pure metal

You can not control Fresnel because it is based on physical chart. Of course using only Fresnel will not complete whole simulation. Instead of this parameter exist many others:

Bidirectional reflectance distribution function
Emissivity
Lambert's cosine law
Transmittance
Sun path
Light Reflectance Value
Albedo
...but really we do not need this (some of them you have in Maxwell...why time render is killing when you activate all physical functions)
I think is enough to use Fresnel :) and Mixer for combine colours and textures.
Here example of Fresnel:
F.jpg


Left vertical parameter is level of reflection in percent (if I am not wrong), this is not Fresnel parameter.


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