Nodes parts (I)

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Janusz Biela
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Nodes parts (I)

Post by Janusz Biela »

Here we go, all parts which we use in Kray renders.
Attentions! They are no shaders Nodes! They work properly in Kray because they are just mathematical operators.
______________________________________________________________________________
CLAMP
It`s keeping values between two numbers (we use only range 0-1, it means minimum value will be 0% and maximum 100%)
Protect render from errors, not allowing for example diffuse extend over 100%.
It is connected only in two places: Diffuse and reflection channel.
No need control for this Node by user.
Diffuse_Reflection_Clamp.png

______________________________________________________________________________
SUBTRACK
It`s extracting from diffuse reflection value. For example when surface has 50% reflection it will subtract from diffuse 50% (too keep diffuse+reflection always 100%)
Value A has level 1.0 (100%).
Attention! This value should be change! Kray automatically reduce diffuse from surfaces (for example dark colour with 100% diffuse will not reflect photons)
In Kray you do not need control diffuse! (keep always 100%) - Kray will control diffuse by his engine.
Value B inform Node how much must be subtract from diffuse (of course when reflection is 0 then is nothing to subtract and surface will have 100% diffuse)
No need control for this Node by user.
Subtract.png

______________________________________________________________________________
LOGIC
In this case we inform reflection Node how deep raytracing is calculated.
A - inform LOGIC what we want (in this case: bounces)
B - amount of recurse (how deep will be reflection calculated - 3.0 times in this case)
Operations: inform less, more or equal recurse
True - real value of reflection
EDIT If false - if recurse get error then automatically will be setup to 3.0. I am not sure it must be. I found bug in Kray with this option and Operation (updated image with suggested set up + example how it works)
Basically is just reducing amount of reflection. The best situation to explain is two mirrors opposite each other. In real we see infinite amount of reflection. This situation is very rare and if we have tiles in bathroom then is nonsense calculate 10-12 times reflection when after two wee will see no difference.
Node should drastically reduce time render in scenes with big amount of reflected surfaces.
No need control for this Node by user.


update info
Logic.png
Example how it works in render.
Logic_example.png


______________________________________________________________________________
FRESNEL
The most important Node from all. No Fresnel - no realistic.
Index Of Refraction A - no need to use (Is for specific situations with liquids)
Index Of Refraction B - the most important value. By this we control reflection
Reflection - 100% can be change but I think better is keep default.
Transmission - not used.

values for surfaces, short map:
- no reflection value 1.0
- very low reflected surfaces (walls) value 1.1-1.2
- low reflection surfaces (cabinets, floor) value 1.2-1.4
- medium reflected surfaces (cabinets, floor, plastic, wood) value 1.4-2.0
- high reflected surfaces but still far from metals (cabinets, floor, plastic, leather, wood) value 2.0-3.0
- low reflected metals or high reflected other surfaces value 3.0-10.0
- medium reflected metals value 10.0-15.0
- metal 50.0
Needs control all the time by user depends from surface.
Fresnel.png
______________________________________________________________________________


In the end of Part I our Starter.
- It should be in all surfaces.
- no control! (only Fresnel)
- full auto for Diffuse
Starter.png

In attachment:
- each part separately
- easy to add (by Import Nodes from menu)
- easy to save/load (for further building)
IO.png
______________________________________________________________________________
Nodes parts + surface (updated)
Nodes_Import_Parts.rar
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khan973
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by khan973 »

Really nice, pretty much what I use, but I never thought about clamping values to be sure they don't go higher!
Thanks for your explanations!
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khan973
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by khan973 »

I think it's probably in your next step, but you could add Bump.
With only this, we can create nice textures.
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khan973
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by khan973 »

Ugly light setup, but it was 2 min test :)
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by Janusz Biela »

It will be soon second part.
btw You managed very well, maybe one more Node (the most important after Fresnel: Colour Tool. All the time should be before connection to colour channel - it is highly necessary because most textures needs control before connecting. About this soon)
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khan973
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by khan973 »

You're right and this is what I was doing right now to better manage reflection value or saturation / brightness of the image as we don't use diffuse for that.
Quick Leather

Of course, sometimes we'll need more than one map, but 2 or 3 is maximum I think. Unless there is someting specific like a sticker or different materials on the same surface.
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khan973
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by khan973 »

When needing to use different materials on the same surface, my best advice would be to create many materials and use material mixer with alpha to better differenciate each material. Otherwise, node tree is crazy and hard to understand for co-workers.
That way, you only need an alpha and you can import any node tree you have already saved.
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by Janusz Biela »

khan973 wrote:You're right and this is what I was doing right now to better manage reflection value or saturation / brightness of the image as we don't use diffuse for that.
Quick Leather

Of course, sometimes we'll need more than one map, but 2 or 3 is maximum I think. Unless there is someting specific like a sticker or different materials on the same surface.

This render is good for future:
- missing Bum Drop Off system (soon will show it)
- is good when you put Colour Tool (the most important Node after Fresnel - this also I will be explain later) Of course it must be use 2-4 times (will explain it later why and where)
- missing inverse reflection blur (soon will show info)
- missing Mixer (will show also examples)
- missing injections for bump (not needed in this example) but also very important

Yes sometimes (depends from situation) one map is not enough.
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khan973
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by khan973 »

playing around
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qbaqbaKRAY
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by qbaqbaKRAY »

Hi
Thanks Janusz for sharing nodal's solutions! It looks very natural and I'm learning about this subject :)
Could you discuss eg transparent material.

Khan:
Did you compare rendering times with a mix material and without?
I was wondering if is it not better regarding time to create a duplicate wall of polygons?

Janusz:
Some other subject - I love the drops on tomatoes. Especially how they are combined with the vegetable.
How it is done? Drops are separate objects or instance??

Thanks!
Attachments
Q778Db budda .jpg
Q778Dc budda .jpg
Q778Da budda .jpg
qbaqbaKRAY
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by qbaqbaKRAY »

small update
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Q781Da .jpg
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by Janusz Biela »

qbaqbaKRAY wrote:Hi
Thanks Janusz for sharing nodal's solutions! It looks very natural and I'm learning about this subject :)
Could you discuss eg transparent material.
It will be soon Part II and part III . After that I start upload surfaces with materials.
Khan:
Did you compare rendering times with a mix material and without?
I was wondering if is it not better regarding time to create a duplicate wall of polygons?
I am not sure is correct answer for you:
- rendering with Nodes of course is longer because is more calculations in complicate surfaces - this is normal - having good bump level, some Mixers etc increase time render. It can be 5-20 % longer (really is hard to say because You can not except from realistic surfaces fast render!).
The biggest influence for time render has Fresnel effect. It is because Fresnel (in low and medium reflected materials) has very strong reflection on the objects edges (Physic) and this effect consume time render. In REFLECTION region where Fresnel effect is strong (edges) sometimes calculating is half of scene. This is normal behavior.
Janusz:
Some other subject - I love the drops on tomatoes. Especially how they are combined with the vegetable.
How it is done? Drops are separate objects or instance??

Thanks!
This is just basic model. No Instances. Remember in Studio are not post but RAW render has good quality and level light for post.
Tomatoes_post.jpg
qbaqbaKRAY
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by qbaqbaKRAY »

dziekuje Janusz
tak na szybko... przeprasza, ze polsku - wieczorem przetlumacze.
Bardzo fajne rozwiazanie i mysle, ze otwiera wiele mozliwosci.
Node Fresnel jest rewelacyjny + cale drzewo!

Wczesniej, pracujac nodami typu mixer, zaobserwowalem, ze bardzo siadaja czasy i dlatego zastanawialem sie, czy juz nie lepiej stworzyc druga kopie siatki z nowym materialem. Ale zapewne nie zawsze tak mozna.

Janusz, czy mozesz pokazac samo zblizenie siatki z kroplami na pomidorze. Bardzo naturalnie to wyszlo. Zwlaszcza kontakt pomiedzy. Mam z tym tematem na codzien duzy problem i raczej konczy sie na postprodukcji.

pozdrawiam
Kuba
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Janusz Biela
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by Janusz Biela »

qbaqbaKRAY wrote:dziekuje Janusz
tak na szybko... przeprasza, ze polsku - wieczorem przetlumacze.
Bardzo fajne rozwiazanie i mysle, ze otwiera wiele mozliwosci.
Node Fresnel jest rewelacyjny + cale drzewo!

Wczesniej, pracujac nodami typu mixer, zaobserwowalem, ze bardzo siadaja czasy i dlatego zastanawialem sie, czy juz nie lepiej stworzyc druga kopie siatki z nowym materialem. Ale zapewne nie zawsze tak mozna.

Janusz, czy mozesz pokazac samo zblizenie siatki z kroplami na pomidorze. Bardzo naturalnie to wyszlo. Zwlaszcza kontakt pomiedzy. Mam z tym tematem na codzien duzy problem i raczej konczy sie na postprodukcji.

pozdrawiam
Kuba

There is nothing, basic model. Apparently model is not well done: drops wires enter to model.
Tomatoes.png
qbaqbaKRAY
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Re: Nodes parts (I)

Post by qbaqbaKRAY »

Thanks Janusz
Later on I just realized that there is no possibility to edit previously written messages.
So already there to translate.

Ah.... here drops are hidinh in non-transparent object of tomato and is great. Very often I have to do hoartfrost on transparent packaging with drops and does not go so well. But I have been working hard to solve this issue.

BR
Kuba
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