Wip new interior

Please post all your tests and WIPs into this forum
talats
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Update

Postby talats » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:28 am

Here an update.
C&C are welcome
Attachments
wip_02.jpg

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby Janusz Biela » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:48 pm

try make better:
- AA
- lower camera (room looks very bad from this focus)
- lower size of texture on the sofa
- less over bloom
- less blue/pink
- better brick wall setup
- less reflection on floor + setup for texture blur channel
- better materials again
:wink:

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Keraressi Abdelkarim
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby Keraressi Abdelkarim » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:51 pm

can u put just room pls ? i want put some area lights there . and basic surfaces cz i dont know how to use node . when i see janusz node i go to sleep . my braine cant understand what is this . janusz so advanced artist and ofcourse the best in whole world . :mrgreen:

talats
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby talats » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:47 pm

Janusz Biela wrote:
talats wrote: Where can be find the fresnel parameter for all kind of materials? I would be really useful.
Tnx again

...nowhere.
You will find fresnel for transparency materials (physic chart) but with fresnel for no transparent materials it will be difficult. In web are some informations but I do not think so You can use those values in renders. After many months I just put fresnel from "the finger". Generally I use:
- plastic, floor, ceramic 1.4-2.0 (depends from strength of reflection)
- more reflected materials 2.0-4.9
- metal 15 max

One tech information: people think: fresnel make longer render - it`s true, but not because it is Node by itself, but because the edge of these objects are high reflected so this part must be longer calculate because in this thin area is reflected almost half of scene.
The time render with Nodes all the time is longer and this is also normal. It Is just more physically accurate rendering which need more calculations.
Without Nodes will be no good effects at all in renders so even the best Global Illumination engine will not help .


Janusz, a short question:
in your node where and how can be set the values above (between 1.4 and 15 depending by material)?
And can you tell us in wich way you control the fresnel curve?
Thanks!
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fresnel_curve.jpg

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:54 pm

this is the most easier way making reflection with diffuse (full auto mode)
In Kray you do not touch diffuse! Is against physic.
Diffuse in Kray is calculated automatically by Luma value in color.
Another way:
- black color RGB 0,0,0 with 100% Diffuse consume photons in 100% (no reflect photons from this surface)
- white color RGB 255,255,255 with 100% diffuse doesn't consume photons at all so they are reflect all
So only what you need keep is correct value between color, reflection and diffuse.
Node above does it automatically (reflection/diffuse). Only what you need is correct Fresnel level according to material (plastic, wood, metal, etc).
Please also remember not to use specular, ambient intensity, occlusion.
Never control surface brightness by diffuse.

In screen shoot example Diffuse level is control by SUBTRACT - more reflection, less diffuse. Value 1.0 in this Node tell us about maximum diffuse level - in this case 100%.
So if Fresnel will be 1.0 (no reflection) the result in SUBTRACT will be 100%
If fresnel will be 20 (maximum for reflection, metal value) the result in SUBTRACT will be almost 0%.

Render studio has three spheres and from left: fresnel 1.0, fresnel 2.0, fresnel 20
Last material still keep color (it should not) and better situation is with fresnel 50 bust this value is too high I think. So should be small correction for this system...
Attachments
ScreenShot136.png
ScreenShot136.png (7.39 KiB) Viewed 2369 times
ScreenShot135.png
ScreenShot135.png (8.99 KiB) Viewed 2369 times
ScreenShot137.png
Studio_.png

talats
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby talats » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:54 pm

There are a couple of things I still have to ask about.

1) In the screen I saw of you basic Idea of making material there is no a fresnel node but a manual curve. Also in the cloth material you sended for the pillows.

2) Considering your last screen about how to use fresnel node for diffuse channel. That node has the parameter transmission 1 that is exactely the inverse of reflection generated automatically by the node. So, why you don't connect trasmission 1 directly to diffuse channel? you could also connect trasmission 1 to reflection blurry channel (I guess. I didn't tried yet)

talats
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby talats » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:43 pm

One more thing.

I've saw that a normal map generally break the reflections of the surfaced where it's applied, giving a natural reflection blurry effect, according to the normal map it self. So, I was thinking, when we have a normal map, why don't we avoid to use reflection blurry channel?
This can be more true in the case we generate the normal map in the way you shown us by node starting from the bum map.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:04 pm

talats wrote:There are a couple of things I still have to ask about.

1) In the screen I saw of you basic Idea of making material there is no a fresnel node but a manual curve. Also in the cloth material you sended for the pillows.


...because Fresnel for cloth material is quite strong on the edges and sometimes I test new thinks :wink:

2) Considering your last screen about how to use fresnel node for diffuse channel. That node has the parameter transmission 1 that is exactely the inverse of reflection generated automatically by the node. So, why you don't connect trasmission 1 directly to diffuse channel? you could also connect trasmission 1 to reflection blurry channel (I guess. I didn't tried yet)


There are many ways to connect Nodes and receive same effect. This my sys I am for sure: it`s working, no strange artefacts in render or "hot cells photons".
It can be good idea to use transmission 1 for diffuse. I have planes to make some small modification for dark surfaces in diffuse but not idea yet how (it must be logarithmic with small value for bright surfaces and bigger for darker)

Reflection channel I make from texure.

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Janusz Biela
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Re: Wip new interior

Postby Janusz Biela » Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:18 pm

talats wrote:One more thing.

I've saw that a normal map generally break the reflections of the surfaced where it's applied, giving a natural reflection blurry effect, according to the normal map it self. So, I was thinking, when we have a normal map, why don't we avoid to use reflection blurry channel?
This can be more true in the case we generate the normal map in the way you shown us by node starting from the bum map.


Same above.
I use generally three textures
- color
- reflection for reflection and blur (this last one after invert transformation)
- bump map (transformed to Normal)

sometimes one texture (if it is possible) can replace three all from above.

The blur map texture is one the most important connection! It make very realistic surface and it must "cooperate" with bump map (inverted and corrected by COLOR TOOL create parts which are more blurred and less. For example wood floor has parts which are less blurred - bump..... and holes more blurred - holes) All the time I use this (except some surfaces without texture) and this is only one way to do it - the easiest and very important.


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