www.kraytracing.com

New update K3 globalilumination test
Only ambient light without physical lights.
Perfect GI can see shadows from every window.
The smallest details given in GI. Zero errors.
3 million cloned photons 5 times giving 15 000000 photons in the scene.
Render time 1600 px 5 minutes

Simply: G. made masterpiece Edge Coding

"Only ambient light without physical lights."

Do you mean no LEM in windows, light only from phsky? Or from bg color?

vgabex wrote:"Only ambient light without physical lights."

Do you mean no LEM in windows, light only from phsky? Or from bg color?

I think he used LW background color (or texture Env image)...I see characteristic shadows from background light.

Only ambient light.
There is no LEM panel in the scene.
it's really amazing GI quality.

artattak wrote:Only ambient light.
There is no LEM panel in the scene.
it's really amazing GI quality.

You mean this ambient light?:

I think Ambient light means in his case: background (fill) light.

Impressive results for just ambient lighting.
How about some animations?
Will animation in K3 get equal attention as still images are?

Only BG

ideart wrote:Impressive results for just ambient lighting.
How about some animations?
Will animation in K3 get equal attention as still images are?

Kray (K2/K3) is master in animation with very static Photon Map. We work now in this department in K3 - now when core is ready we start release animation procedures.

Janusz Biela wrote:

ideart wrote:Impressive results for just ambient lighting.
How about some animations?
Will animation in K3 get equal attention as still images are?

Kray (K2/K3) is master in animation with very static Photon Map. We work now in this department in K3 - now when core is ready we start release animation procedures.

Bold statement.
Static photon map produces lifeless, old fashion, dry looking animations.
What about if someone needs to have doors opening, curtains blowing in the wind, people walking etc.?

K3 is unknown to me but in K2 animation has serious issues and ignored bugs for years.
The last 3 years I have rendered tens of thousands frames and I constantly had to deal with random crashes and 99% freezes.
I have also found thad some nodes setups like the metal one that you so kindly shared with the community causes reflection flickers.
And in the end even if everything went smoothly I had to live with the horrible K2 AA (no I can't afford to render in 4K in order to have better result in HD).

So the only reason that I am asking if K3 would bring improvements in the animation area is because later this year I will have to rerender large portions of past kray projects and I don't have the time to set all those projects again in Vray.

ideart wrote:
Bold statement.
Static photon map produces lifeless, old fashion, dry looking animations.
What about if someone needs to have doors opening, curtains blowing in the wind, people walking etc.?

You have 2 types of animation system: Interpolated and non interpolated

Non Interpolated is Path Tracing - typical brute force

Interpolated: Photon Mapping

Interpolated has two types of animation:
- PM+Interpolated sampling (Final Gathering) full Interpolation - the fastest system
- PM+brute Force sampling (Path Tracing or Quasi Monte Carlo)

...that's all. Nothing to invent or research. Everything you have in Kray.


Now you must decide what system is the best for your project (do not exist golden solution, all systems has pro and cons)

Exterior Animation System:
- if scene is small: PM+QMC or PM+FG
- if scene is complex: pure Path Tracing

Interior Animation system:
- if scene is static: PM+QMC, PM+FG
- if scene contain moving objects/lights: PM+QMC+Allow Animation or PM+QMC Time Interpolation

Time Interpolation is the best system ever. In K3 we will improve this system: allowing stop/start animation, network render.

ideart wrote: K3 is unknown to me but in K2 animation has serious issues and ignored bugs for years.
The last 3 years I have rendered tens of thousands frames and I constantly had to deal with random crashes and 99% freezes.
I have also found thad some nodes setups like the metal one that you so kindly shared with the community causes reflection flickers.
And in the end even if everything went smoothly I had to live with the horrible K2 AA (no I can't afford to render in 4K in order to have better result in HD).

I use Kray 13 years....never had problems in animation: Single/network.
Most problems cause not supported third part Nodes which always I worn not to use. Forget use third part Nodes, Forget use LW Shader system Nodes. G. is tired not to have full documentation or missing SDK from them.
We DO NOT SUPPORT risky stuff, G. will not make traps in code for them to avoid crashes. They are full of bugs, badly written codes, etc.
I am 100% sure you used something risky.
That`s why in K3 we stop support any third part Nodes. We go to our system: Nodes/shaders. Also we stop support Specularity.

ideart wrote: So the only reason that I am asking if K3 would bring improvements in the animation area is because later this year I will have to rerender large portions of past kray projects and I don't have the time to set all those projects again in Vray.

There is nothing to improve, only Time Interpolation and our network K3 system.
I strongly suggest use Path Tracing for complex scenes and no third part Nodes/plugins.


Here is what happen when you have bad engine:


Here when is correct PM solution:

Janusz Biela wrote: I use Kray 13 years....never had problems in animation: Single/network.
Most problems cause not supported third part Nodes which always I worn not to use. Forget use third part Nodes, Forget use LW Shader system Nodes. G. is tired not to have full documentation or missing SDK from them.
We DO NOT SUPPORT risky stuff, G. will not make traps in code for them to avoid crashes. They are full of bugs, badly written codes, etc.
I am 100% sure you used something risky.
That`s why in K3 we stop support any third part Nodes. We go to our system: Nodes/shaders. Also we stop support Specularity.

I am one of the oldest Kray user, no need to lecture me about things Kray is not supporting.
I haven't mentioned third party nodes nor LW shader system, not now not back when I was sending scenes so you can catch bugs, so you are 100% wrong on this.
Nobody asked you to support risky stuff, but to fix known problems that exist for many years. Things like the 99% random freeze, or the Bake GI loop, or the one that the user must reload the whole scene when is making a simple change in the scene if GI mode is in Time interpolation or Shared for all frames. And of course you have decided to leave uncommented the horible AA and the reflection flicker from your metal node surface.
From the latest K3 renders I see that the horible AA is stil present.

Janusz Biela wrote:There is nothing to improve, only Time Interpolation and our network K3 system.
I strongly suggest use Path Tracing for complex scenes and no third part Nodes/plugins.

I render mostly on Garage farm so Time Interpolation is not an option.
Since when pathtracing became a fast productive solution? Is K3 going to be that fast?

I don't try to be negative in general but when I read bold statements and comparisons with other software that exist and they are not still on beta after years of development then something rebels inside me.

If you feel that there is nothing to improve then there isn't a common ground for discussion.
I wish you the best of luck.

Time Interpolation is not supported by any network render.
AA solution in Kray is very good...especially in K3. AA solution depends strongly from Photon Mapping and solution that`s why in K3 is very fast.
LimiDR problem which is horrible in LW Native and V-ray or Corona is much MUCH better in K2/K3.
If you have flickering in reflection blur it means you have not enough photons. In Path Tracing this problem doesn`t exist but you must deal with noise.
Reflection blur is calculated by Photon Map solution - for sure you do something wrong with settings (I suspect not enough filled scene by photons) and also not enough Rays for blur.

Path Tracing is not "fast" but in some specific condition offers good balance speed like open studio render (rendering car in exterior or exterior).
Rendering is very close standard raytracing because in most open scenes you avoid deep recurse bounce light, simple: photons "life" 1-3 bounce times. That`s why in interiors Path Tracing is horrible because amount of bounce lights drastically grows. Every bounce light for PT brings catastrophic drop speed of render.
Render engines based on Path Tracing contain a lot of trick: one know is simple reducing bounce lights and multiply them. This cause plastic renders or very strong Global Illumination in corners.

If you have crash bug you can send it to G. but I doubt he will fix it.

ideart k3 has realy nice and fast AA. also reflection blur everything was laging in k2 in k3 its fastest as hell ^^ . .

trust me i forget k2 lol . because of k3. it whole new system wich will make every k2 and lw native and octane user will be happy with k3 .

im still waiting for shaders i cant wait to see reflection shders and transparency + refraction system ^^ .

i dont care about poste process and k3 will have his own system about flare wich there is no system like that in corona or vray or fstorm . you will have 100/100 controlled system + physky2 now is really really amazing u can control everything and its more and much better then corona sky and corona sun .

i use corona and i use k3 . i can tell you with 88 threads k3 is faster without noise reduction compare to coron with noise reduction . we dont have yet this option but it willl come ^^ . but in my opinion we dont really need this but k3 has relly good bases . good luck for all of us ^^ .

just be patient because k3 will hit all famous rendering engines on market . so G. need time because the guy he is coding alone xD . you have to wait compare to others but less bug then others ^^ and he also everytimes put something new in engine soo we will get new and fresh idea in the engine as the years he will be produced and full working shaders + poste process ^^ .

what i can tell you . i just press render in less 2 second scn start render in complex scn comparing to corona complex scn i still need to wait 6 or 10 min with 88 thread in black screeen after thos 10 min or 6 min then render will start soo look the differance sometimes i think there is some ghost working inside my computer when i hit render with k3 i thinkg some ghosts are there to speedup start rendering .